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Thread: App State vs Ark State

  1. #101
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by cajun_lannister View Post
    Not shine but at least be at the right place and communicate with each other majority of the time would be nice .

    We also paid this staff a lot of money to clean up mistakes and coach up players better than the previous staff.
    So if by year end, or next year we show dramatic improvement, will you admit you were wrong or will you think the coaches suddenly started doing their job?

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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
    who says its wrong?
    Is this Jeopardy?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    So if by year end, or next year we show dramatic improvement, will you admit you were wrong or will you think the coaches suddenly started doing their job?
    I will be more than happy to admit I was wrong

    I just want to watch good football again.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by cajun_lannister View Post
    I will be more than happy to admit I was wrong

    I just want to watch good football again.
    Agreed. I think we will see that improvement. I think he his laying a foundation and when we get a little more talent in place, AND he has more time to correct the teaching deficiencies, we will see a dramatic improvement. And it will be systematic instead of sort of a lucky combination of hitting on two QBs (Gautier, Broadway) and a few others. When the talent luck ran out, there was nothing to fall back on. Now I think we will be able to compete when we have average talent, but we will get better than average, so we will more than just compete. It is frustrating to see some of the same issues still there, but I'm going to give him longer to fix the problem.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    I saw a good amount of wr screen passes in the first 2 games. Some TE use and slants across the middle. It really looked like a new offense being installed. Since then the TE is almost non existent, the middle of the field isn't being attacked, and most importantly, the jump ball is our go to pass play. I understand one on ones on the outside have been successful here and we have the receivers to win a lot of thos balls, but it just seems like a lack of scheme and imagination kind of play that I saw a ton of last year. The passing offense that last 3 games is very similar to recent years and it is my biggest cause for concern offensively.


  6. #106
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    Agreed. I think we will see that improvement. I think he his laying a foundation and when we get a little more talent in place, AND he has more time to correct the teaching deficiencies, we will see a dramatic improvement. And it will be systematic instead of sort of a lucky combination of hitting on two QBs (Gautier, Broadway) and a few others. When the talent luck ran out, there was nothing to fall back on. Now I think we will be able to compete when we have average talent, but we will get better than average, so we will more than just compete. It is frustrating to see some of the same issues still there, but I'm going to give him longer to fix the problem.
    You can look back at what I said preseason I did not care if we won 3 games all year if we looked like we had a solid foundation & fundamentals going into 19 I would be happy. ... Hopefully that's the case

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob81 View Post
    I saw a good amount of wr screen passes in the first 2 games. Some TE use and slants across the middle. It really looked like a new offense being installed. Since then the TE is almost non existent, the middle of the field isn't being attacked, and most importantly, the jump ball is our go to pass play. I understand one on ones on the outside have been successful here and we have the receivers to win a lot of thos balls, but it just seems like a lack of scheme and imagination kind of play that I saw a ton of last year. The passing offense that last 3 games is very similar to recent years and it is my biggest cause for concern offensively.
    Depends on what the defense is giving up or taking away...all about matchup, that's the scheme that plays out..and spreading the defense out, allows for better rushing lanes

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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman66 View Post
    I believe they have more speed than us across the board, but significantly more on defense.
    I didn't see that on offense, their WR's are not any faster than Malone or Bradley. Their offensive line didn't rush for 100 yards against Alabama and none of their RBs are the quality of Ragas or Mitchell.

    None of this, or your assessment changes the fact that we must run the football consistently to have any chance at winning that game or any other game for that matter. The margin for error is really that small for this team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutch0364 View Post
    It's is a sad reality. You can get over some limitations but talent cannot be taught. In the heat of the moment, we all tend to fall back on what is/was comfortable. That is even with elite athletes. Tim Tebow worked on his throwing motion for a year and as soon as he was thrown into the heat, his new motion went away.

    This was never going to be a quick rebuild. I see our coaches using a lot of band aids right now. If we still see the same results in 4 years, we can revisit these issues but for now I am enjoying the process.
    The fan in me wanted to believe we would compete right away. The realist in me is learning to enjoy the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob81 View Post
    I saw a good amount of wr screen passes in the first 2 games. Some TE use and slants across the middle. It really looked like a new offense being installed. Since then the TE is almost non existent, the middle of the field isn't being attacked, and most importantly, the jump ball is our go to pass play. I understand one on ones on the outside have been successful here and we have the receivers to win a lot of thos balls, but it just seems like a lack of scheme and imagination kind of play that I saw a ton of last year. The passing offense that last 3 games is very similar to recent years and it is my biggest cause for concern offensively.
    Our receiving TE, who was a walk on that just received a scholarship tore his ACL. Our HB/TE position is being played by Ashton Johnson a backup RB. Barnes and Lumpkin are more of the blocking TE's and looking at our run game results are pretty effective.

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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    I didn't see that on offense, their WR's are not any faster than Malone or Bradley. Their offensive line didn't rush for 100 yards against Alabama and none of their RBs are the quality of Ragas or Mitchell.

    None of this, or your assessment changes the fact that we must run the football consistently to have any chance at winning that game or any other game for that matter. The margin for error is really that small for this team.
    I agree with everything you put on this. Our WR and RB positions are arguably the best in the conference. I don't think our issues are our OL, WR, and RB, but every other position needs upgrades in talent.

    Everyone in the Sunbelt West is beatable but like you said we will need to control the Arkansas State game on the ground. The East is a different story. Troy and App State are deep and as far as Sunbelt teams go, they have very few weaknesses. Georgia Southern's offense will give every team fits. It looks like whoever wins the west will have the pleasure of traveling up to App State in Dec.

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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by Clutch0364 View Post
    It looks like whoever wins the west will have the pleasure of traveling up to App State in Dec.
    I hear it's lovely up there that time of year.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    So if by year end, or next year we show dramatic improvement, will you admit you were wrong or will you think the coaches suddenly started doing their job?
    Again, I read all these posts and I think many of you are taking the criticism of the coach and staff the wrong way. I, like Lannister, have been openly critical of what I've seen thus far. I will state this one more time. That doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that coach Napier and staff will someday lead us to greater things. It doesn't mean that I hate the hire or want another coach. What it does mean is that we've played enough football this year to draw conclusions and develop opinions. What I see from many of you is a blind faith because the responses I've seen on this thread and others before it cannot be developed from anything else.

    I get it. I get it. We've played two tough SEC teams. Ok. We've played a bad FCS team in Grambling, I get it. That doesn't mean that we cannot draw conclusions from these games. I also doesn't mean that we are giving up on Napier or my favorite by CrazyCajun in that we want to "Run him off". Nobody that I've seen has even suggested that we make a coaching change or that he should be fired.

    However, I do question what I've seen in offensive scheme thus far. I think our scheme against MS State was actually pretty good, at least to begin the game. We had a great misdirection run game to start the game and we drove the ball right down their throat until we ____ the bed in the redzone. We had a semi-vertical passing game with actual routes run by our wideouts where we were getting the ball to them. We've used the TE at times this season and they've been effective. We were getting the ball to Calais on the perimeter and he was very effective etc.. and I can go on and on.

    Fast forward to other games and you see an abandonment of these same things. We are back to jumpballs to a six foot receiver rather than our taller guys. We've basically told all other teams to not worry about our TE position and we are back to treating Calais like he is Ragas. This is all before I even get to the defensive side of the ball. I know, I know. I've been told a number of times that we have no talent on that side. Well, actually many of these same people saying that were the same ones raving about many of our newcomers at the start of training camp. We absolutely have done nothing to get to the QB and our secondary can't get any worse but we aren't helping them by giving the QB 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

    Usually, when you pay a new staff the type of money we are paying them, you expect to see certain improvements from the year prior. I mean, after all, the season prior is likely what got the previous coach fired or at least was the final straw. Well, we won 5 games last year. We have essentially the same players or at least the same level of talent. I'm not sure I'm even seeing 5 wins this year which is what I predicted earlier.

    To be honest, Lannister was right about the look of our offense. I looks the same as it did with Hud last year. I was optimistic about the playaction I saw earlier this season as I think that is important with our running game but we have abandoned that too. I don't think anybody is abandoning this coach and staff but I also think that criticism is warranted but it doesn't mean we've given up on him either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
    Again, I read all these posts and I think many of you are taking the criticism of the coach and staff the wrong way. I, like Lannister, have been openly critical of what I've seen thus far. I will state this one more time. That doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that coach Napier and staff will someday lead us to greater things. It doesn't mean that I hate the hire or want another coach. What it does mean is that we've played enough football this year to draw conclusions and develop opinions. What I see from many of you is a blind faith because the responses I've seen on this thread and others before it cannot be developed from anything else.

    I get it. I get it. We've played two tough SEC teams. Ok. We've played a bad FCS team in Grambling, I get it. That doesn't mean that we cannot draw conclusions from these games. I also doesn't mean that we are giving up on Napier or my favorite by CrazyCajun in that we want to "Run him off". Nobody that I've seen has even suggested that we make a coaching change or that he should be fired.

    However, I do question what I've seen in offensive scheme thus far. I think our scheme against MS State was actually pretty good, at least to begin the game. We had a great misdirection run game to start the game and we drove the ball right down their throat until we ____ the bed in the redzone. We had a semi-vertical passing game with actual routes run by our wideouts where we were getting the ball to them. We've used the TE at times this season and they've been effective. We were getting the ball to Calais on the perimeter and he was very effective etc.. and I can go on and on.

    Fast forward to other games and you see an abandonment of these same things. We are back to jumpballs to a six foot receiver rather than our taller guys. We've basically told all other teams to not worry about our TE position and we are back to treating Calais like he is Ragas. This is all before I even get to the defensive side of the ball. I know, I know. I've been told a number of times that we have no talent on that side. Well, actually many of these same people saying that were the same ones raving about many of our newcomers at the start of training camp. We absolutely have done nothing to get to the QB and our secondary can't get any worse but we aren't helping them by giving the QB 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

    Usually, when you pay a new staff the type of money we are paying them, you expect to see certain improvements from the year prior. I mean, after all, the season prior is likely what got the previous coach fired or at least was the final straw. Well, we won 5 games last year. We have essentially the same players or at least the same level of talent. I'm not sure I'm even seeing 5 wins this year which is what I predicted earlier.

    To be honest, Lannister was right about the look of our offense. I looks the same as it did with Hud last year. I was optimistic about the playaction I saw earlier this season as I think that is important with our running game but we have abandoned that too. I don't think anybody is abandoning this coach and staff but I also think that criticism is warranted but it doesn't mean we've given up on him either.
    Just my opinion, but I think the playcalling and gameplan have changed because of our players' inability to execute. I think the staff might be adjusting to players' strengths and I think the staff has maybe developed some trust issues, particularly with the QB position.

    I do not see the same Hud team on the field or on the sidelines. The 50/50 balls and lack of seam attack is frustrating, but again, I think that's an execution/trust issue, not a coaching issue.

    There are certain situations where what you're paying is completely irrelevant to what's occurring. What we're paying Napier and staff to do is build a foundation of sustainable success, bring credibility to our football program as a whole, make us viable for the next big conference shake up, re-establish our recruiting footprint, repair and build new relationships within CFB, and yes, win games.

    So far, I'm happy with all of those things. I think by the end of this year, the Coastal game will be the outlier.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Follow up on Jalin Moore



  16. #116
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by ManAboutTown View Post
    Just my opinion, but I think the playcalling and gameplan have changed because of our players' inability to execute. I think the staff might be adjusting to players' strengths and I think the staff has maybe developed some trust issues, particularly with the QB position.

    I do not see the same Hud team on the field or on the sidelines. The 50/50 balls and lack of seam attack is frustrating, but again, I think that's an execution/trust issue, not a coaching issue.

    There are certain situations where what you're paying is completely irrelevant to what's occurring. What we're paying Napier and staff to do is build a foundation of sustainable success, bring credibility to our football program as a whole, make us viable for the next big conference shake up, re-establish our recruiting footprint, repair and build new relationships within CFB, and yes, win games.

    So far, I'm happy with all of those things. I think by the end of this year, the Coastal game will be the outlier.
    Ok but I'm not sure how abandoning things that were working earlier, particularly against better competition, and going to jumpballs and such which we just aren't that good at is a positive adjustment. Why change something if its working for something that isn't? We were using playaction passes very well after we established the run earlier. I've seen very little of this recently. Those types of things don't make sense to me.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
    Again, I read all these posts and I think many of you are taking the criticism of the coach and staff the wrong way. I, like Lannister, have been openly critical of what I've seen thus far. I will state this one more time. That doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that coach Napier and staff will someday lead us to greater things. It doesn't mean that I hate the hire or want another coach. What it does mean is that we've played enough football this year to draw conclusions and develop opinions. What I see from many of you is a blind faith because the responses I've seen on this thread and others before it cannot be developed from anything else.

    I get it. I get it. We've played two tough SEC teams. Ok. We've played a bad FCS team in Grambling, I get it. That doesn't mean that we cannot draw conclusions from these games. I also doesn't mean that we are giving up on Napier or my favorite by CrazyCajun in that we want to "Run him off". Nobody that I've seen has even suggested that we make a coaching change or that he should be fired.

    However, I do question what I've seen in offensive scheme thus far. I think our scheme against MS State was actually pretty good, at least to begin the game. We had a great misdirection run game to start the game and we drove the ball right down their throat until we ____ the bed in the redzone. We had a semi-vertical passing game with actual routes run by our wideouts where we were getting the ball to them. We've used the TE at times this season and they've been effective. We were getting the ball to Calais on the perimeter and he was very effective etc.. and I can go on and on.

    Fast forward to other games and you see an abandonment of these same things. We are back to jumpballs to a six foot receiver rather than our taller guys. We've basically told all other teams to not worry about our TE position and we are back to treating Calais like he is Ragas. This is all before I even get to the defensive side of the ball. I know, I know. I've been told a number of times that we have no talent on that side. Well, actually many of these same people saying that were the same ones raving about many of our newcomers at the start of training camp. We absolutely have done nothing to get to the QB and our secondary can't get any worse but we aren't helping them by giving the QB 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

    Usually, when you pay a new staff the type of money we are paying them, you expect to see certain improvements from the year prior. I mean, after all, the season prior is likely what got the previous coach fired or at least was the final straw. Well, we won 5 games last year. We have essentially the same players or at least the same level of talent. I'm not sure I'm even seeing 5 wins this year which is what I predicted earlier.

    To be honest, Lannister was right about the look of our offense. I looks the same as it did with Hud last year. I was optimistic about the playaction I saw earlier this season as I think that is important with our running game but we have abandoned that too. I don't think anybody is abandoning this coach and staff but I also think that criticism is warranted but it doesn't mean we've given up on him either.
    Question, exactly where have you and Lannister coached?

  18. #118
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by cajun_lannister View Post
    You can look back at what I said preseason I did not care if we won 3 games all year if we looked like we had a solid foundation & fundamentals going into 19 I would be happy. ... Hopefully that's the case
    Look at the last 6 quarters of football.

    4 quarters of some of the best football this school has ever played(2nd Half Bama, 1st Half TSU).

    1 decent quarter(4th Q TSU).

    1 bad quarter(3rd Q TSU).



    This season is a Quarter by Quarter battle, and we just need to keep on keepin' on.



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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by fanof71 View Post
    Question, exactly where have you and Lannister coached?
    Come on now, since when is coaching experience a requirement to post a opinion on a fan board? Feel free to explain why you feel he is wrong, but let's not go there because we don't like his opinions.

  20. #120
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    Default Re: App State vs Ark State

    Quote Originally Posted by ManAboutTown View Post
    Just my opinion, but I think the playcalling and gameplan have changed because of our players' inability to execute. I think the staff might be adjusting to players' strengths and I think the staff has maybe developed some trust issues, particularly with the QB position.

    I do not see the same Hud team on the field or on the sidelines. The 50/50 balls and lack of seam attack is frustrating, but again, I think that's an execution/trust issue, not a coaching issue.

    There are certain situations where what you're paying is completely irrelevant to what's occurring. What we're paying Napier and staff to do is build a foundation of sustainable success, bring credibility to our football program as a whole, make us viable for the next big conference shake up, re-establish our recruiting footprint, repair and build new relationships within CFB, and yes, win games.

    So far, I'm happy with all of those things. I think by the end of this year, the Coastal game will be the outlier.
    Yes. Napier and his staff are running into the same issues the previous staff had with physical limitations of players. Hud had no clue what type of player he was looking for so he deserved what he got. It looks like this staff knows what they are doing on the recruiting trail and I would expect the play calling and schemes to improve once we get in more talented players.

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