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Thread: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunRebel View Post
    From what I understand the biggest causes of poor school performance are things you can't fix in a classroom. There is a distinct causal relationship between poor school performance and issues like poverty, broken homes, etc. If you're a kid living in a poor household, your single mother has to work long hours to make ends meet, or you're dealing with family issues at home, your schoolwork will obviously suffer.

    It shouldn't surprise anyone that the poorest states in the US also have the worst educational performance. And it shouldn't surprise anyone that the US, which has more income inequality and higher poverty than almost every other first world country, would also have worse school performance despite spending more money than they do.
    I don't disagree, but wouldn't it make more sense to let those individuals (regardless of circumstances) who are not caught up (or can overcome) in those type of situations to advance at a different pace that leads to bigger and better things, rather than holding them back waiting on the less privileged to attempt to catch up? Then the system could group those that struggle or are slower to learn and implement specialized programs in an "attempt" to assist them as needed.

    Regardless of if one is white, black, green, yellow, rich, poor, African, Asian, French or English etc., we are not all equal (regardless if the government tries to make it that way) in the ability to learn and comprehend. One size does not fit all. Never has, never will!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    That's the same as comparing Football recruits to Baseball recruits. Parent involvement has nothing to do with it, and the cost of entry has everything to do with it. You are dealing with a better group of students in general, due to socioeconomics. Trust me...I went to a private school...most of the parents neglected their kids the same as public schools parents did...they just threw money at the issue instead of asking someone else to fix the issue.
    Bull____. When parents have skin in the game, IN GENERAL they are more involved. I went to private school and without the parents being extremely involved the lights wouldn't have stayed on. Most of these parents were making tough choices to spend money send their kids there....and they made sure the kids were not wasting it.

    Putting skin in the game makes all the difference.

    Why do you think those students are better students due to socioeconomics? What MAKES them better? It's the parental involvement. Poor kids with parents who push them and who are involved, will have a much better chance to succeed. That seems almost irrefutable.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    I also have to guess that the majority of kids that see their parents get out of bed each morning and head out to work everyday, would tend to have a little more work ethic engrained in their lives than those that don't.


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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    Bull____. When parents have skin in the game, IN GENERAL they are more involved. I went to private school and without the parents being extremely involved the lights wouldn't have stayed on. Most of these parents were making tough choices to spend money send their kids there....and they made sure the kids were not wasting it.

    Putting skin in the game makes all the difference.

    Why do you think those students are better students due to socioeconomics? What MAKES them better? It's the parental involvement. Poor kids with parents who push them and who are involved, will have a much better chance to succeed. That seems almost irrefutable.
    Parent involvement at home is crucial, especially when you have a child that requires special attention but there are also a lot of parents who are in denial and do not give the child the required help he needs at home and at school. My wife is a first grade teacher at a very good school district in the Houston area. She has a few kids who are not even on Kindergarten level and have major behavior issues. Not only are the parents in denial, the school ties the teacher's hands... she is not allowed to give the kid an F and the kid does not get punished for behavior issues. They will pass the poor kid to 2nd Grade. It only hurts the kid. My wife gets paid relativity well but it is not nearly enough for what they put up with.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunJack55 View Post
    My wife gets paid relativity well but it is not nearly enough for what they put up with.
    AMEN Brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    Bull____. When parents have skin in the game, IN GENERAL they are more involved. I went to private school and without the parents being extremely involved the lights wouldn't have stayed on. Most of these parents were making tough choices to spend money send their kids there....and they made sure the kids were not wasting it.

    Putting skin in the game makes all the difference.

    Why do you think those students are better students due to socioeconomics? What MAKES them better? It's the parental involvement. Poor kids with parents who push them and who are involved, will have a much better chance to succeed. That seems almost irrefutable.
    The majority of kids at private schools are not there out of necessity. They are there because money isn't an issue. There are bad parents at every level of social class...the only difference is money. You have a fairy tale view of how private schools work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie35 View Post
    I also have to guess that the majority of kids that see their parents get out of bed each morning and head out to work everyday, would tend to have a little more work ethic engrained in their lives than those that don't.
    I've met better people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, than at the top.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    The majority of kids at private schools are not there out of necessity. They are there because money isn't an issue. There are bad parents at every level of social class...the only difference is money. You have a fairy tale view of how private schools work.
    Of course there are bad parents at every level, I never said there wasn't.

    I said IN GENERAL private school kids' parents are more involved. And parental involvement is the number 1 driver (in my opinion) in the success or failure of kid.

    I went to and have now sent my kids to private school. I know all about them.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    I've met better people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, than at the top.
    I don't disagree, but in most (not all) cases, to make money one has to go to work, take responsibility for your own life and understand that getting ahead with a decent life means not putting your future in the hands of the government at any level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charliek View Post
    Of course there are bad parents at every level, I never said there wasn't.

    I said IN GENERAL private school kids' parents are more involved. And parental involvement is the number 1 driver (in my opinion) in the success or failure of kid.

    I went to and have now sent my kids to private school. I know all about them.
    Having been sent to private schools as a child, and sending my child to a public school, I see the same level of involvement. That's the fairy tale you subscribe to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie35 View Post
    I don't disagree, but in most (not all) cases, to make money one has to go to work, take responsibility for your own life and understand that getting ahead with a decent life means not putting your future in the hands of the government at any level.
    The richest kids I've met...are the most devoid of self-reliance. They are subsidized, not by the government, but by their own parents.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie35 View Post
    I don't disagree, but wouldn't it make more sense to let those individuals (regardless of circumstances) who are not caught up (or can overcome) in those type of situations to advance at a different pace that leads to bigger and better things, rather than holding them back waiting on the less privileged to attempt to catch up? Then the system could group those that struggle or are slower to learn and implement specialized programs in an "attempt" to assist them as needed.

    Regardless of if one is white, black, green, yellow, rich, poor, African, Asian, French or English etc., we are not all equal (regardless if the government tries to make it that way) in the ability to learn and comprehend. One size does not fit all. Never has, never will!
    I'm not gonna say this to be a smart ___. Because I absolutely agree with you and its gonna be a generational thing. And the longer we wait, the more generations we lose. And the cost of the band-aids just keeps going up.

    But would you have problems with ANY of the following being funded by public dollars at the public school level?

    Free lunch AND breakfast (my wife taught at a lower income school here in Lafayette and cried when she realized Friday lunch might be the last thing some kids ate until they got back Monday morning)

    Campus health clinics, that yes might distribute birth control. Imagine giving kids flu shots at school where they can access such a thing?

    And for that matter, extensive sex education. Stopping the cycle?

    After-school tutoring.

    Subsidized daycare for working parents (and single moms still in school)

    Parenting skills and life skills training for single parents (25 year olds who got pregnant at 14 or 15 tend to suck at parenting)

    Transportation to-and-from parent-teacher conferences.

    Just some thoughts.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    Whew. Now those high performing states like La, Ms, etc can go back to doing their own thing.
    If you consider alternative education as a guaranteed improvement for ACT scores and increases in college entrance, than fine. My two oldest never needed Common Core to score high enough on the ACT and gain entrance into UL Business School and Nursing. One is graduated and the other is in her last year of Clinicals.

    My youngest on the other hand started school in the old system, was diagnosed with serious life threatening disease and the learning problems that come with it. All switching to Common Core did is destroy his confidence in learning and his love for education.

    There is no specific answer for low test scores in our state and across the nation. Simply creating a new way of learning for at risk children doesn't meet the prior standards nor will it improve the learning environments in the schools they attend. But a certain group of people in this country have made millions off of Common Core and the new texts required in all 50 states. In the meantime, the same at risk children are still stuck in the same learning environments outside of School Choice and School Choice Academies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycajun View Post
    The government knows exactly what they want to do with education in this country and it's working, rapidly.
    A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves". Edward R. Murrow

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    If you consider alternative education as a guaranteed improvement for ACT scores and increases in college entrance, than fine. My two oldest never needed Common Core to score high enough on the ACT and gain entrance into UL Business School and Nursing. One is graduated and the other is in her last year of Clinicals.

    My youngest on the other hand started school in the old system, was diagnosed with serious life threatening disease and the learning problems that come with it. All switching to Common Core did is destroy his confidence in learning and his love for education.

    There is no specific answer for low test scores in our state and across the nation. Simply creating a new way of learning for at risk children doesn't meet the prior standards nor will it improve the learning environments in the schools they attend. But a certain group of people in this country have made millions off of Common Core and the new texts required in all 50 states. In the meantime, the same at risk children are still stuck in the same learning environments outside of School Choice and School Choice Academies.
    I agree that standardized tests are not the end all, be all. The test data should drive the curriculum not the test itself.
    Educational goals, and the strategies to achieve them, have to change because the economic opportunities change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CajunJack55 View Post
    Parent involvement at home is crucial, especially when you have a child that requires special attention but there are also a lot of parents who are in denial and do not give the child the required help he needs at home and at school. My wife is a first grade teacher at a very good school district in the Houston area. She has a few kids who are not even on Kindergarten level and have major behavior issues. Not only are the parents in denial, the school ties the teacher's hands... she is not allowed to give the kid an F and the kid does not get punished for behavior issues. They will pass the poor kid to 2nd Grade. It only hurts the kid. My wife gets paid relativity well but it is not nearly enough for what they put up with.
    Hell, my brother teaches auto mechanics in high school. Most of them are there because of their "indifference", that is, so the government check keeps coming to the house. They tell him straight up, you can't flunk us all or they'll give you a bad evaluation. Tail wagging the dog.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajun Monkee View Post
    I'm not gonna say this to be a smart ___. Because I absolutely agree with you and its gonna be a generational thing. And the longer we wait, the more generations we lose. And the cost of the band-aids just keeps going up.

    But would you have problems with ANY of the following being funded by public dollars at the public school level?

    Free lunch AND breakfast (my wife taught at a lower income school here in Lafayette and cried when she realized Friday lunch might be the last thing some kids ate until they got back Monday morning)

    Campus health clinics, that yes might distribute birth control. Imagine giving kids flu shots at school where they can access such a thing?

    And for that matter, extensive sex education. Stopping the cycle?

    After-school tutoring.

    Subsidized daycare for working parents (and single moms still in school)

    Parenting skills and life skills training for single parents (25 year olds who got pregnant at 14 or 15 tend to suck at parenting)

    Transportation to-and-from parent-teacher conferences.

    Just some thoughts.
    I can agree to some of that, if you agree to a couple of things.

    You only qualify for these things, if your parents are on Welfare.

    You only qualify for Welfare, if you pass a drug test and are actively seeking employment.

    No more government funding of fatherless children.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoomZoom View Post
    Hell, my brother teaches auto mechanics in high school. Most of them are there because of their "indifference", that is, so the government check keeps coming to the house. They tell him straight up, you can't flunk is all or they'll give you a bad evaluation. Tail wagging the dog.
    You could have the same argument at a private school with, "my dad donates money to the school, pass me or I'll tell him to have you fired." The sword cuts both ways.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    I can agree to some of that, if you agree to a couple of things.

    You only qualify for these things, if your parents are on Welfare.

    You only qualify for Welfare, if you pass a drug test and are actively seeking employment.

    No more government funding of fatherless children.
    I don't think you will find a family with both parents that qualifies for "welfare". And I think there is a work provision in the TANF program. I think the program is structured toward single parents, but I could be wrong.

    I really think the drug testing for welfare recipients is a straw man. I think Arizona, Utah, and Florida have found the cost of the testing FAR exceeds the savings in people being removed from the rolls. I think Arizona literally found a couple of violators.

    Fatherless children is one of the problems.

    Its okay for you to say you disagree with my points. Don't throw in variables to create a situation wherein I'm the inflexible one.

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    Default Re: OT: Bye Bye Common Core...

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    My 4th grader is struggling with algebra. In fact, the whole 4th grade is struggling with math right now. You know why? The Common Core standards force new materials at an ever increasing pace and teachers/students can't keep up. They're trying to force Algebra on 9 year olds when most of them never learned multiplication tables or long division properly and it is a train wreck.

    No lack of money caused this, and no amount of money will fix this.
    Long ago... in a galaxy far far away... it was proven that money is not the problem with education. (And Hawk... you can teach the next Einstein from old basic textbooks in a shack... but you cannot fight stealth bombers with bows and arrows... there is no comparison/correlation to education spend and military spend).

    Our greatest problem in public education is American culture. The raw product American households are sending to the classroom is putrid. And WAY beyond that... we should not require parents to be a part of the basics of education. Children in America should be in school all day until they have completed their classroom and study hall assignments. All students should be completing every bit of their work, with the help of teacher/tutors, at the school. We should increase teacher pay strictly based on merit... fire the weak ones with a wave of the hand... and send derelict administrators to prison. Teachers should work 8 to 5... and be done with education at 5... just like the students.

    We're depending on single parent households... or low income homes... or parents that don't have the education backgrounds to participate with their children's "homework". We all know that we learn way more from studying than we do sitting in a classroom. Kids with parents (and internet access... and outside private tutors) that can help... gain a huge advantage... and it makes gaps continue to widen. All education should be done at school. And when kids get home... family life and values should be the sole responsibility of the parents. Don't fight over homework. There is none. Eat dinner with the family... build family activities that strengthen the family bond.

    But again... we've destroyed a couple of generations with our crap US culture. And we're going to continue doing so... until we reach a bottom. I'd love to think that bottom is near... but I fear there's too many ____heads built into the politics of public education to not have it become ABYSMAL... before we fix it.

    It's irrelevant whether Common Core is over or not (and who cares who ended/ends it). No replacement system solves the biggest problems... charter schools only point to the flaws in public education... until we get honest and point to the real problems in American politics and culture.

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