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Thread: Johnston street

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    But that's not our history...so it's just a non-sequitur with zero point along the lines of..."well your face is ugly."
    Are we not the United States currently? Do you still consider yourself a confederate southerner? Is nobody on here originally from the north? Soldiers are pawns...always have been and always will be, no matter the side or "the cause"

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    My grandfather always imparted on me what his father told him about the Civil War.

    "It wasn't fought for us. It was fought for the plantation owners. It was fought for the cotton barons. We were just the pawns they used. I see no use in being proud of being taken advantage of."

    It's our history, but it's nothing at all to be proud of.
    To a large extent very true. My grandfather told me his grandfather and family spent large amounts of time avoiding forced service in both armies during the war. Many men were forced to serve at gun point for people that had never meet them because they were considered poor farmers.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Hark Mudspeth View Post
    Are we not the United States currently? Do you still consider yourself a confederate southerner? Is nobody on here originally from the north? Soldiers are pawns...always have been and always will be, no matter the side or "the cause"
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    To a large extent very true. My grandfather told me his grandfather and family spent large amounts of time avoiding forced service in both armies during the war. Many men were forced to serve at gun point for people that had never meet them because they were considered poor farmers.

    It is amazing how most Cajuns got swept up into this (that) and how few generations it took for them to forget why they came to Louisiana. ... Neutrality.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    Now look up definition of moron.
    I'm replying to the definition of moron right now..

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    Quote Originally Posted by raoul View Post
    It should be remembered that the "vigilantes" that were formed by Mouton had as their goal the capture of horse thieves and cattle rustlers. Importantly, they were also successful in driving out early origins of the KKK which did not resurface in Acadiana until fairly recently.
    The KKK evolved from antebellum vigilante groups not unlike your beloved General Mouton's own. Mouton's vigilantes wrongfully terrorised and persecuted blacks, Acadians, other ethnic groups, those of mixed race, those who fraternized with coloreds etc. equating them as less than horse thieves and cattle rustlers. You're sanitizing history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    What's the point of your argument? I never took the North's side. You made the case that they were to just as much to blame. Not being proud of the Confederate history of our ancestors doesn't automatically make me a Union sympathizer.
    Your grandfather said he wasn't fighting for the cause...that is probably a majority sentiment with most soldiers on any side. You said that's not our history...it's all our history...we are the United States, for now. All of it is our history. Not every southerner had slaves, not every southerner wanted slaves but which side you were gonna fight for or if you were gonna fight wasn't really debatable in those days. Same for the north. Being a proud southerner doesn't make you racist or agree with slavery. You can be proud of being from the south and proud of the heritage and not be racist and want slavery. People can't seem to separate the two.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    The KKK evolved from antebellum vigilante groups not unlike your beloved General Mouton's own. Mouton's vigilantes wrongfully terrorised and persecuted blacks, Acadians, other ethnic groups, those of mixed race, those who fraternized with coloreds etc. equating them as less than horse thieves and cattle rustlers. You're sanitizing history.
    And you're perverting it. The bottom line is, you refuse to see the other side of this argument because you have an axe to grind. Whatever that is, I don't know for sure. "Fraternizing with coloreds" for example was seen completely different in that era. You're either ignorant or purposely perverting the point.

    YOU CAN NOT EQUATE THAT CULTURE TO A MODERN DAY MORAL COMPASS, jackass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    To a large extent very true. My grandfather told me his grandfather and family spent large amounts of time avoiding forced service in both armies during the war. Many men were forced to serve at gun point for people that had never meet them because they were considered poor farmers.
    Yet again why General Mouton betrayed his Acadian ancestry and praising him defiles our own.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    Flip side of the coin...you are demonizing history. The true story probably resides somewhere in the middle.
    Yes.
    And for the record, this is where I reside. I know I probably come across as more hardliner on this topic, but I'm frankly being more extreme to belabor the point that PencilDlck refuses to acknowledge. On purpose, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManAboutTown View Post
    And you're perverting it. The bottom line is, you refuse to see the other side of this argument because you have an axe to grind. Whatever that is, I don't know for sure. "Fraternizing with coloreds" for example was seen completely different in that era. You're either ignorant or purposely perverting the point.

    YOU CAN NOT EQUATE THAT CULTURE TO A MODERN DAY MORAL COMPASS, jackass.
    It did not betray the moral compass of the noble rural acadians who routinely did it. The wealthy slave owning plantation owners moral compasses were warped. You fail to acknowledge that good exists in this world today because we are descended from the good that came before us. That is what I choose to honor.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Check out the history of Mouton Cove when looking for Southerners who DIDN'T want to fight. Ironically, they were Moutons too.


  12. #72

    Default Re: Johnston street

    True the civil war was about a lot of things but it does not excuse the fact that we went there chained them up and brought them here as slaves and if the south had won it would have continued


  13. #73
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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by beaux66 View Post
    True the civil war was about a lot of things but it does not excuse the fact that we went there chained them up and brought them here as slaves and if the south had won it would have continued
    It would not have continued for many reasons. I'll name a few:
    1) We didn't go anywhere and "chain them up". They're own people sold them as slaves.
    2) An uprising was already under way
    3) The majority of pro-slavery folks were rich. Most others opposed slavery by the time Civil War happened.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    It did not betray the moral compass of the noble rural acadians who routinely did it. The wealthy slave owning plantation owners moral compasses were warped. You fail to acknowledge that good exists in this world today because we are descended from the good that came before us. That is what I choose to honor.
    In all seriousness, I get what you're saying.

    Again, this "good/bad" thing has been debated for millennia. The men that wrote a governing document proclaiming self evident truths about human rights were, themselves, slave owners! It is an effort in futility to try and understand that way of thinking, and even more ridiculous to take today's societal norms and apply them to pre Civil War societal norms. I don't even think that's debatable. Furthermore, judging men of note from our history based on the single worst thing they ever did in life is also patently absurd.

    I think we can at least agree that this statue thing has absolutely nothing to do with what we're arguing about...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    Flip side of the coin...you are demonizing history. The true story probably resides somewhere in the middle.
    The account I provide of history is an accurate one. True I have placed the value judgment that blacks and acadians were wrongfully persecuted. This is not merely the flipside of a coin espousing General Mouton as a noble prosecutor of horse and cattle thieves. General Mouton did not transcend the thinking of his time, but thank God for those who survived him and did. A lot of people do bad things thinking it's right, but we should learn from and evaluate history. Much of the history people are suddenly up in arms about preserving isn't history but mythology. General Mouton was a product of his time but I stand that his actions were wrongful. The historical contemporaries he persecuted would have used harsher wording than wrongful. The oppressed and persecuted don't suffer in mute allegiance and one day awaken due to an enlightened agitator. Those who suffered knew all along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManAboutTown View Post
    In all seriousness, I get what you're saying.

    Again, this "good/bad" thing has been debated for millennia. The men that wrote a governing document proclaiming self evident truths about human rights were, themselves, slave owners! It is an effort in futility to try and understand that way of thinking, and even more ridiculous to take today's societal norms and apply them to pre Civil War societal norms. I don't even think that's debatable. Furthermore, judging men of note from our history based on the single worst thing they ever did in life is also patently absurd.

    I think we can at least agree that this statue thing has absolutely nothing to do with what we're arguing about...
    Hey MAT I forgot what we were arguing about! Was it about the importance of winning an outright title in the SBC in football first...

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Johnston street

    If you think that "taxation and cotton" is somehow separate from "we need/want slaves" you need to retake 7th grade history.
    It doesn't matter what other societies have done or how slaves came to be in the US, there is no honor or glory in it. Context has zero to do with it.
    Washington and Jefferson are not honored because they were slave owners. They are honored because without them there would be no United States. Honoring Lee is absurd if you call yourself an American. Lee fought our country. Remember the history and learn from it. Don't glorify a failed rebellion.


  18. #78
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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    If you think that "taxation and cotton" is somehow separate from "we need/want slaves" you need to retake 7th grade history.
    It doesn't matter what other societies have done or how slaves came to be in the US, there is no honor or glory in it. Context has zero to do with it.
    Washington and Jefferson are not honored because they were slave owners. They are honored because without them there would be no United States. Honoring Lee is absurd if you call yourself an American. Lee fought our country. Remember the history and learn from it. Don't glorify a failed rebellion.
    Who the hell is glorifying it? At one point in history, perhaps, but like most things, that statue has grown to tell the story of our heritage. It's not a temple that people go and worship at the feet of. All this time no one gave a damn about these statues, but all of a sudden, our society just can't go on living this way? Give me a break.

    Taxation and Cotton were THE reason for the Civil War. That is not debatable. And yes, I agree that slavery is directly tied to those issues, but don't try to turn this into a social issue. These decisions and conditions were made STRICTLY as business considerations. Owners needed slaves to make money. If they had robots back then, they wouldn't have chosen the slaves over the robots (which is what your side is saying -- these men were inherently evil and thus enjoyed abusing Blacks and Minorities) Slavery was an operating expense, a budget line. Was it awful? OF COURSE IT WAS ______ING AWFUL. What human being would even have to ask?

    I'm well aware of my history. It's the useful morons destroying statues that have no idea what the hell they are "protesting". That's the point, and that's a huge problem. Anarchists are piggy backing off of low hanging fruit to have carte blanche to ______ ____ up.

    BTW, go and take a look at past civilizations that tried to erase the "bad" aspects of their cultures. When you see the pattern, please get back to me.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    If you think that "taxation and cotton" is somehow separate from "we need/want slaves" you need to retake 7th grade history.
    It doesn't matter what other societies have done or how slaves came to be in the US, there is no honor or glory in it. Context has zero to do with it.
    Washington and Jefferson are not honored because they were slave owners. They are honored because without them there would be no United States. Honoring Lee is absurd if you call yourself an American. Lee fought our country. Remember the history and learn from it. Don't glorify a failed rebellion.
    Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Ulysses S. Grant were are graduates of West Point with the same military training. All three have had some impact in the US military strategy long after their deaths, so their historical importance goes beyond their roles as Generals on opposing sides during the American Civil War. I worship none of them. Ironically Grant was the last sitting President to have owned slaves, but he is honored because he lead the North to final victory.

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    Default Re: Johnston street

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Ulysses S. Grant were are graduates of West Point with the same military training. All three have had some impact in the US military strategy long after their deaths, so their historical importance goes beyond their roles as Generals on opposing sides during the American Civil War. I worship none of them. Ironically Grant was the last sitting President to have owned slaves, but he is honored because he lead the North to final victory.
    And this is getting to the heart of what we're trying to say. The moralist bull____ has got to stop. Because anyone, ANYONE of repute from the past, on any side of any cause, has baggage.

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