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Thread: Coastal Erosion

  1. Louisiana Coastal Erosion

    Louisiana's Dr. Heather Stone is archiving stories of Native American residents of Isle de Jean Charles, a coastal community being wiped out by erosion


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  2. Louisiana OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    The District Attorney for the 15th Judicial District, Keith Stutes, has announced the filing of major litigation to recover for damages, restoration costs and actual restoration as a result of oil and gas exploration, production and transportation operations in Vermilion Parish which have "caused substantial damages to land and water bodies, geological formations, and cultural and economic opportunities in violation of Louisiana state law, rules and regulations."


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by NewsCopy View Post
    The District Attorney for the 15th Judicial District, Keith Stutes, has announced the filing of major litigation to recover for damages, restoration costs and actual restoration as a result of oil and gas exploration, production and transportation operations in Vermilion Parish which have "caused substantial damages to land and water bodies, geological formations, and cultural and economic opportunities in violation of Louisiana state law, rules and regulations."

    And this state wonders why land based oil and gas companies are fleeing the state in droves. This and Legacy Lawsuits only serve to line the pockets of politicians and lawyers.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    And this state wonders why land based oil and gas companies are fleeing the state in droves. This and Legacy Lawsuits only serve to line the pockets of politicians and lawyers.
    Yep, that sucks. And I live in Vermilion Parish.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    This should put the final nail in ICY's coffin


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    The thing that baffles me now with these lawsuits is what process was taken to allow the oil/pipeline operators to proceed with construction.

    Did someone grant them a permit/easement, or are they in trespass?? (I doubt they intentionally went out and trespassed.)

    What about the lease rentals and royalties paid? What about the damages paid to acquire and construct the drill site pads and pipelines? Where did those monies go to offset the damage??


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunrunner View Post
    The thing that baffles me now with these lawsuits is what process was taken to allow the oil/pipeline operators to proceed with construction.

    Did someone grant them a permit/easement, or are they in trespass?? (I doubt they intentionally went out and trespassed.)

    What about the lease rentals and royalties paid? What about the damages paid to acquire and construct the drill site pads and pipelines? Where did those monies go to offset the damage??
    Calling Rauol

    How does this line up with Stutes against Landry? Stutes' deal is only for the Parish? Can you fill us in on that???


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunrunner View Post
    The thing that baffles me now with these lawsuits is what process was taken to allow the oil/pipeline operators to proceed with construction.

    Did someone grant them a permit/easement, or are they in trespass?? (I doubt they intentionally went out and trespassed.)

    What about the lease rentals and royalties paid? What about the damages paid to acquire and construct the drill site pads and pipelines? Where did those monies go to offset the damage??
    I can answer a couple of these for you.

    Legacy suits are based on Several factors:

    First is that oil and gas leases, in general, are not arms-length agreements; hence the oil company has an unfair advantage in the contract, and the wording in the contract is almost always slanted in favor of the company.

    Second: Major operators had the necessary scientific knowledge to be aware that the chemicals used in drilling and completion, and some produced liquids would cause long term or permanent damage to the land if put in unlined pits as early as the 1920's. Landowners did not, in general, have such knowledge. Unlined pits were legal in Louisiana until 1989; but compliance with the implied provisions of leases to avoid unnecessary damage to the leased premises required, or should require, the operators to avoid knowingly doing preventable damage to the land, even if it was legal.

    Third: The State was failing in its obligation to force operators to remediate improperly abandoned wells. It is far from coincidence that the state's recent surge in compliance orders for redmediation closely mirrors the filing of legacy suits.

    As to the assertion that legacy suits are costing jobs, that is patently untrue, and provably so. In point of fact, the time frame since the beginning of legacy filings closely coincides with the biggest boom in the Louisiana oil industry in the last 40 years. Legacy suits are not the cause of the boom, but they did not and are not costing jobs.

    As to rentals and royalties: Rentals are payments for obtaining a lease and holding it without activity. Royalties are payments for a product removed from the landowners' property. Neither is a damage payment. Neither was ever intended to pay for remediation, and in point of fact, both law and industry custom dictate that working interest owners bear total responsibility for all operations and for all consequences of such operation.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Calling Rauol

    How does this line up with Stutes against Landry? Stutes' deal is only for the Parish? Can you fill us in on that???

    They are suing the wrong people for coastal erosion and land loss. Probably in excess of 90% of such loss is attributable to US government agencies, primarily the US Army Corps of Engineers.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Who cannot be sued successfully. Just ask NOLA victims.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    They are suing the wrong people for coastal erosion and land loss. Probably in excess of 90% of such loss is attributable to US government agencies, primarily the US Army Corps of Engineers.
    Yes....the Corp is vastly more at fault

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunEXPRESS View Post
    Who cannot be sued successfully. Just ask NOLA victims.
    No argument from me on that point, Express; but the fact is that the Corps of Engineers is the most environmentally damaging organization in the history of the world.

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    Ragin' Cajuns Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    They hold the hammer over every single congressional district and state. They are virtually immune from reform. I guess only the EPA has more power, as the EPA can determine anything to be bad for the environment and penalty fee them to death.


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    I can answer a couple of these for you.

    Legacy suits are based on Several factors:

    First is that oil and gas leases, in general, are not arms-length agreements; hence the oil company has an unfair advantage in the contract, and the wording in the contract is almost always slanted in favor of the company.
    If they are unfair to the landowners...landowners shouldn't sign them. Majority don't read them, or want the money more than they care about the consequences. The landowners are not without guilt here.

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    Second: Major operators had the necessary scientific knowledge to be aware that the chemicals used in drilling and completion, and some produced liquids would cause long term or permanent damage to the land if put in unlined pits as early as the 1920's. Landowners did not, in general, have such knowledge. Unlined pits were legal in Louisiana until 1989; but compliance with the implied provisions of leases to avoid unnecessary damage to the leased premises required, or should require, the operators to avoid knowingly doing preventable damage to the land, even if it was legal.
    I've seen pictures of the original Jennings field that was the first major discovery in the state, it was bad. Company I work for purchased working interest in a well in that field in the 90's, and it was horrendous. Working for a company that only deals in mature fields, we see this a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    Third: The State was failing in its obligation to force operators to remediate improperly abandoned wells. It is far from coincidence that the state's recent surge in compliance orders for redmediation closely mirrors the filing of legacy suits.
    Very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    As to the assertion that legacy suits are costing jobs, that is patently untrue, and provably so. In point of fact, the time frame since the beginning of legacy filings closely coincides with the biggest boom in the Louisiana oil industry in the last 40 years. Legacy suits are not the cause of the boom, but they did not and are not costing jobs.
    When the price of oil & gas overrides the legal cost of Legacy Lawsuits, people are going to drill and operate. When it doesn't...it will affect jobs. It's doing it right now. But the majority of Louisiana Oil & Gas jobs are not onshore, so the effect on jobs is minimal. Buying and selling interests is affected by Legacy Lawsuits. Purchasing a mature field means you are buying into a Legacy Lawsuit. Selling a mature field means selling at a discount because of the inherited lawsuits.

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    As to rentals and royalties: Rentals are payments for obtaining a lease and holding it without activity. Royalties are payments for a product removed from the landowners' property. Neither is a damage payment. Neither was ever intended to pay for remediation, and in point of fact, both law and industry custom dictate that working interest owners bear total responsibility for all operations and for all consequences of such operation.
    The original awards for the Legacy Lawsuits were also not used for remediation. That's the reason the state stepped in and started to escrow Legacy lawsuit awards, so that remediation must take place and the remaining funds can be dispersed to the landowner. I have no problem with landowners being made whole, but that is not and never has been the intent of these lawsuits. Carmouche saw an opportunity to make a ____ ton of money, and he knew the right palms to grease in Baton Rouge. Reform is badly needed, and without it, the onshore oil & gas industry is doomed in this state. But...Carmouche is still out there pounding the pavement, and shoving wads of cash into politicians pockets to lessen the restraints on these archaic, draconian legal nooses.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    I am not arguing that there is no abuse on all sides of the issue. I am only pointing out that the job loss propaganda is just that, and that in the absence of Legacy suits, there would have been no remediation by anyone of fields like Jennings and Port Barre and Hackberry that were environmental nightmares.


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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    I am not arguing that there is no abuse on all sides of the issue. I am only pointing out that the job loss propaganda is just that, and that in the absence of Legacy suits, there would have been no remediation by anyone of fields like Jennings and Port Barre and Hackberry that were environmental nightmares.
    How do other states deal with it? Because they don't have these goofy Legacy suits where 35 oil companies are named in one suit.

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    Ragin' Cajuns Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    How do other states deal with it? Because they don't have these goofy Legacy suits where 35 oil companies are named in one suit.
    Most other states actually enforce their own regulations.

    The suit specifically named in this thread is much broader in scope than any legacy suit I have ever seen.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    Most other states actually enforce their own regulations.
    (Audible gasp) You mean they don't involve lawyers and politicians in a game of Kerplunk! with people's tax dollars?

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by VObserver View Post
    I can answer a couple of these for you.

    Legacy suits are based on Several factors:

    First is that oil and gas leases, in general, are not arms-length agreements; hence the oil company has an unfair advantage in the contract, and the wording in the contract is almost always slanted in favor of the company.

    Second: Major operators had the necessary scientific knowledge to be aware that the chemicals used in drilling and completion, and some produced liquids would cause long term or permanent damage to the land if put in unlined pits as early as the 1920's. Landowners did not, in general, have such knowledge. Unlined pits were legal in Louisiana until 1989; but compliance with the implied provisions of leases to avoid unnecessary damage to the leased premises required, or should require, the operators to avoid knowingly doing preventable damage to the land, even if it was legal.

    Third: The State was failing in its obligation to force operators to remediate improperly abandoned wells. It is far from coincidence that the state's recent surge in compliance orders for redmediation closely mirrors the filing of legacy suits.

    As to the assertion that legacy suits are costing jobs, that is patently untrue, and provably so. In point of fact, the time frame since the beginning of legacy filings closely coincides with the biggest boom in the Louisiana oil industry in the last 40 years. Legacy suits are not the cause of the boom, but they did not and are not costing jobs.

    As to rentals and royalties: Rentals are payments for obtaining a lease and holding it without activity. Royalties are payments for a product removed from the landowners' property. Neither is a damage payment. Neither was ever intended to pay for remediation, and in point of fact, both law and industry custom dictate that working interest owners bear total responsibility for all operations and for all consequences of such operation.
    Great info. Thanks for the explanation.
    Rising Tide is a great look at the evolution of the Corps and what flood control has done to the wetlands.

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    Default Re: OT: 15th District Judicial District Files Suit On Behalf Of Vermilion Parish

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    (Audible gasp) You mean they don't involve lawyers and politicians in a game of Kerplunk! with people's tax dollars?
    When water quality laws were passed in Texas, the TWQB walked into the Exxon refinery in Baytown and told them to clean up their discharges or shut down. No Louisiana regulatory authority would have done that to Exxon in BR, or Dow in Plaquemine.

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