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Thread: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the guns go North to South across the border. Not the other way.
    You sure about that? Almost positive that's illegal

    J/j I think your right in that something needs to change. But like Dad said above, let's start with actually enforcing the laws that are currently on the books before adding more to the mix.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Something needs to be done, banning guns or certain types of guns will do nothing to help.


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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    There you go again acting as if the criminal has to go through this required process. They are circumventing processes now. He (the few) willing to commit mass murder will not be who you stop. You're arguing for a solution that isn't. It has nothing to do with people throwing their hands up in the air and saying "I want my guns despite the cost in lives". Your premise is flawed, and your conclusion is a myth. What mental illness isn't treated as a disease? Are you saying criminal behavior anchored in mental illness shouldn't be treated as crime? That's exactly what gets some people back on the streets and committing crime. You really do have a youthful utopian view of the world.

    I'd hate for you to be a crime victim. But I seriously think if you're ever on the seriously ugly end of a crime, you're not going to enjoy being in court listening to the mental illness defense. You're actually going to develop a serious distaste for bleeding hearts that free a disturbed person, only to look at their government to "do something with them.". Culture is creating the increased crime we live in. It's also creating the mental illness. Steer your rage toward exterminating these cultures.


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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by duggie85 View Post
    You sure about that? Almost positive that's illegal

    J/j I think your right in that something needs to change. But like Dad said above, let's start with actually enforcing the laws that are currently on the books before adding more to the mix.
    Agreed

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the guns go North to South across the border. Not the other way.
    Where there's a market, and law limiting it, there's a black market. Use your imagination. Do you really think gun flow is in one direction... and will stay that way... if the US stopped manufacturing and selling the guns you've banned or limited access to criminals?

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
    There you go again acting as if the criminal has to go through this required process. They are circumventing processes now. He (the few) willing to commit mass murder will not be who you stop. You're arguing for a solution that isn't. It has nothing to do with people throwing their hands up in the air and saying "I want my guns despite the cost in lives". Your premise is flawed, and your conclusion is a myth. What mental illness isn't treated as a disease? Are you saying criminal behavior anchored in mental illness shouldn't be treated as crime? That's exactly what gets some people back on the streets and committing crime. You really do have a youthful utopian view of the world.

    I'd hate for you to be a crime victim. But I seriously think if you're ever on the seriously ugly end of a crime, you're not going to enjoy being in court listening to the mental illness defense. You're actually going to develop a serious distaste for bleeding hearts that free a disturbed person, only to look at their government to "do something with them.". Culture is creating the increased crime we live in. It's also creating the mental illness. Steer your rage toward exterminating these cultures.
    Typical. Not even close to my point. Criminal behavior, by definition is just that, criminal. I mean the people that need help and maybe could have been treated before they act. Treatment, not incarceration.
    Some of the "culture" is our gun culture.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
    Where there's a market, and law limiting it, there's a black market. Use your imagination. Do you really think gun flow is in one direction... and will stay that way... if the US stopped manufacturing and selling the guns you've banned or limited access to criminals?
    So again. Your policy is "do nothing".

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    Typical. Not even close to my point. Criminal behavior, by definition is just that, criminal. I mean the people that need help and maybe could have been treated before they act. Treatment, not incarceration.
    Who is getting incarcerated that's got mental issues, that hasn't committed a crime? Who are we not treating that's coming forward or being identified for mental illness treatment? The guy that shot up The Grand was identified and treated for mental illness. The guy that did the Sandy Hook shooting had a history of mental illness and treatment. The Aurora Dark Night cinema shooter was treated for mental illness. What exactly was your point? We don't treat people with mental illness as suffering from disease? Who in the mental illness medical field doesn't regard those with mental illness not having a disease?

    Don't smart me with your "typical" crap. How are you interrupting crime with a new mental illness approach? Doctors across America eagerly await your discovery.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    So again. Your policy is "do nothing".
    I told you what needs to be done. If you're that ignorant that you can't see that our issues are cultural, then I cannot help you. Go ban guns. Go fight for whatever checks and systems you think will do the trick. Do what you think you need to do.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
    Who is getting incarcerated that's got mental issues, that hasn't committed a crime? Who are we not treating that's coming forward or being identified for mental illness treatment? The guy that shot up The Grand was identified and treated for mental illness. The guy that did the Sandy Hook shooting had a history of mental illness and treatment. The Aurora Dark Night cinema shooter was treated for mental illness. What exactly was your point? We don't treat people with mental illness as suffering from disease? Who in the mental illness medical field doesn't regard those with mental illness not having a disease?

    Don't smart me with your "typical" crap. How are you interrupting crime with a new mental illness approach? Doctors across America eagerly await your discovery.
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/incarceration.aspx

    Deinstitutuionalism has shifted the mentally ill from treatment centers to prisons. AND every one of those you mentioned had legal guns, yes? Thats the point.
    And I must be ignorant because I am unclear about this "culture" that is the root of our country's ills. Is it the "culture" that has saturated our country with easy to get guns or the culture politicians so beholden to the NRA and its supporters that they refuse to have a conversation about guns even though most Americans agree that something needs to be done. Again, while kids, cops and other innocents are killed, our Congress is debating the national crisis that is internet porn. I bet all of the shooting victims would rather the shooters be at home, on the internet.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/incarceration.aspx

    Deinstitutuionalism has shifted the mentally ill from treatment centers to prisons. AND every one of those you mentioned had legal guns, yes? Thats the point.
    And I must be ignorant because I am unclear about this "culture" that is the root of our country's ills. Is it the "culture" that has saturated our country with easy to get guns or the culture politicians so beholden to the NRA and its supporters that they refuse to have a conversation about guns even though most Americans agree that something needs to be done. Again, while kids, cops and other innocents are killed, our Congress is debating the national crisis that is internet porn. I bet all of the shooting victims would rather the shooters be at home, on the internet.
    I have no issue institutionalizing the mentally ill - and removing them from prisons. You want to treat the symptoms of a degrading society with psychiatrists and antidepressants. Pharmacy loves that. You are overlooking the root of the problem. Go visit the prisons and help treat the individuals you're referring to. Good luck with that. It's simple to write articles and study... it's massively difficult to treat.

    The reason we have overcrowded prisons is a cultural problem in the US. The problem with low self esteem, social disorders, drug addiction, horrendous moral values, lack of respect for others... creates intense degradation of mental stability. And it is a cultural problem. It has nothing to do with the NRA. You clamor on and on that we have an epidemic problem with killing children and cops... but leave behind the daily murders utilizing weapons you haven't addressed - all due to a cultural issue - particularly in our black communities. Do you think black communities disproportionately have classic mental illness? Classic? No way. That's racist. Black communities do have quite a few American sociopathic problems - all cultural related. It's not just their culture clash... it's an Americal cultural clash... fostered by politics. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the NRA.

    We have never had an epidemic problem with mass killing of children. We have never had an epidemic problem with mass killing of cops. We have always had an epidemic problem with culture in America. If you'll agree to set up Congress on an honest exploration of the cultural depravity in America... another useless adventure for your beloved government to solve... I'll contact them about exploring how to eliminate weapons that walk around killing innocent people in mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin4U View Post
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/incarceration.aspx

    Deinstitutuionalism has shifted the mentally ill from treatment centers to prisons. AND every one of those you mentioned had legal guns, yes? Thats the point.
    And I must be ignorant because I am unclear about this "culture" that is the root of our country's ills. Is it the "culture" that has saturated our country with easy to get guns or the culture politicians so beholden to the NRA and its supporters that they refuse to have a conversation about guns even though most Americans agree that something needs to be done. Again, while kids, cops and other innocents are killed, our Congress is debating the national crisis that is internet porn. I bet all of the shooting victims would rather the shooters be at home, on the internet.
    In 2014 there were more drunk driving related deaths than all homicides combined, so what should we ban? Cars or alcohol? Which inanimate objects fault is it? Why do people need vehicles that can do 90 mph when speed limits are max 75mph? Why are we allowed to consume alcohol and own cars? If they really wanted us safe, wouldnt every car come with a breathalyzer ignition from the factory? Nothing like an unexpecting family taking a 5 thousand bullet head on at 50 mph...many of these people having multiple DWI's.I think you would be against banning alcohol or cars that go over 25mph. People need to take responsibility to not drink and drive, not the car, not the bartender, not the drink....the person.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    they could put those engine start breath devices standard in every car. they claim they cannot because it is too expensive, but if every single vehicle gets one, I cant help but think the price would go down. most new cars now seem to have Sirius XM radius, even if the car owner doesn't want to subscribe, how much did that cost instead?
    but I get your point, and you are definitely right, good example


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    Default Re: OT: Active Shooter in BR

    Quote Originally Posted by beaux66 View Post
    Why are we so eager to be pro police( which by the way I am) but we hail politicians who won't vote for assault weapons bans. People wake up. These weapons shoot through cars and bullet proof vest. Protect police if you care about them. We are now asking police to go into a war zone.
    Guns don't kill people. People kill people!!! This is a people problem, not a gun problem.

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    Default Re: OT: Active Shooter in BR

    These incidents are just like any other terrorist attack across the world. They want the situation to escalate, because the worst things get, the more people they can recruit for their cause. Meanwhile WE fight about blaming gun control, Obama, Trump, "libtards: cops etc and the news just wants rating.

    We have to stop the finger pointing and enough people have to get together and figure out how to stop this foolishness.


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    Default Re: OT: Active Shooter in BR

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie35 View Post
    Guns don't kill people. People kill people!!! This is a people problem, not a gun problem.
    I am agreeing more with this side of the argument, than the la tech faction.... however, some things are a little fuzzy in my mind..... how was it an ambush, if a. there was only 1 shooter against unlimited number of cops, and b. they knew he was armed and were going to a specific area to find him. so yes, there is truth in that statement that some are too eager to defend the police, but banning guns is an apples to oranges argument.

    P.S. do I have doubts that some lawful gun owners who claim to be pro-2nd amendment fully understand the amendment, yes. and I don't think any amendment is more important than any other, nor any life more important than any other.

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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycajun View Post
    In 2014 there were more drunk driving related deaths than all homicides combined, so what should we ban? Cars or alcohol? Which inanimate objects fault is it? Why do people need vehicles that can do 90 mph when speed limits are max 75mph? Why are we allowed to consume alcohol and own cars? If they really wanted us safe, wouldnt every car come with a breathalyzer ignition from the factory? Nothing like an unexpecting family taking a 5 thousand bullet head on at 50 mph...many of these people having multiple DWI's.I think you would be against banning alcohol or cars that go over 25mph. People need to take responsibility to not drink and drive, not the car, not the bartender, not the drink....the person.
    You are late to the party, the issue isn't whether to do away with cars, it's whether cars can drive themselves.

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    Default Re: OT: Active Shooter in BR

    To me...and this is going to be roundly unpopular, but I really don't care...this is chickens coming home to roost. It's tragic, I get that. Police officers do not deserve to lose their lives while in the line of duty. I will never condone that. But...racism does exist, and is a major reason why this is happening. I know that no one wants to hear it...but racist, ____ed up things, have happened and continue to happen to this very day. The proliferation of guns in this country are 100% a reaction to racial tension. See the video below for a fun look at why this is happening. (kiss my ___ if you don't like the source)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMPQc6ZITD0

    In that same vein, if black people are tired of how they are being treated in this country, maybe it's time for them to be responsible for themselves. The perpetual victim role solves nothing. And this is not a blanket indictment of black people in general. I know there are black people who do not act this way, and try to live a normal life, regardless of what their ancestors went through, and regardless of what people think of them because of their skin color before knowing who they are as a person.

    It's a ____ty situation all around. Neither side is innocent or guilty. This is 300+ years of stupidity coming to a head. Their is no easy solution, and possibly no solution at all. And some people think I'm crazy for not owning a gun.


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    Default Re: OT: Latest Shooting Tragedy in Baton Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    You are late to the party, the issue isn't whether to do away with cars, it's whether cars can drive themselves.
    While I think blaming guns is waaaay off base for this issue..Cars are built for transportation, guns are built for killing/injuring, never liked this argument.

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    Default Re: OT: Active Shooter in BR

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunhawk View Post
    It's a ____ty situation all around. Neither side is innocent or guilty. This is 300+ years of stupidity coming to a head. Their is no easy solution, and possibly no solution at all. And some people think I'm crazy for not owning a gun.
    You are correct, there is a lot going on here.

    The good cops and leaders need to come out against the bad ones and the same for black leaders.

    Police departments lack a lot of funding in in the community outreach department and all this is going to accomplish is that any more funding is going to go to further militarization of the police force (Which is good for no one, ESPECIALLY the black community. ) But wait..isn't that what the second amendment is written for???

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