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Thread: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    Your hypothesis never seems to involve the reality of funding or finances. First, playing as an independent means you no longer have any conference revenue share or television money. You also are no longer guaranteed 8 scheduled games a year; meaning you would have to negotiate, or come to agreement and buy 12 games a season. In that past, that has meant playing four road kill games a year against BCS programs because of the financial restraints put upon your program as an independent. In addition to those negatives, you would have no bowl tie ins to improve your brand. We are not Notre Dame or even BYU that has its own Mormon television network. The best way for UL to improve its brand is within a conference, winning championships and bowl games. You improve your funding, increase your brand recognition and others will want to be associated with your athletic program. That is the proven model for athletic programs like UL, not the graveyard of independents. We’ve been there and have never fully recovered. That is FACT!
    Time for the ULS-LUS network.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    Time for the ULS-LUS network.
    In my view this is a pointless thread. Reason is that no officials at UL are even considering this possibility, have not considered it in years, and will not consider it unless something DRASTIC happens. New Mexico State is facing this possibility and is dreading it. They are doing everything they can to avoid it. Le's see how it works for them.

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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycajun View Post
    Our AD doesn't know his _____ from a hole in the ground, do you really think he could put a schedule together without screwing it up. I guess he could hire a scheduling firm also to do his job.
    Why you be busting out the nuke armament so early?

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunsmike View Post
    In my view this is a pointless thread. Reason is that no officials at UL are even considering this possibility, have not considered it in years, and will not consider it unless something DRASTIC happens. New Mexico State is facing this possibility and is dreading it. They are doing everything they can to avoid it. Le's see how it works for them.
    I understand and agree to an extent but evidently no officials at UL were seriously considering CUSA either and we see where that lack of thought possibility got them. . . in trouble.

    Also I did mention earlier there are two tracks to independence, the Idaho way (same for NMSU) and the BYU way. One garners positive publicity and one garners negative publicity.

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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Yes, Mr. Farmer has not looked very good as of late, but remember, he is just doing what Dr S is telling him. He's not even doing a good job of trying to cover with icing the load of c-r-a-p we were given. I'd say 75% Dr. S, 25% Mr. Farmer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ULGrad@HOU View Post
    Yes, Mr. Farmer has not looked very good as of late, but remember, he is just doing what Dr S is telling him. He's not even doing a good job of trying to cover with icing the load of c-r-a-p we were given. I'd say 75% Dr. S, 25% Mr. Farmer.
    Scheduling is 100% Scott farmer, and I'm not ready to let him off the hook that easy. If Scott farmer is t joe's puppet, then we have a much bigger problem.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    We've been there and have never fully recovered. That is FACT!
    Independence is not/was not the culprit UL needed to recover from.

    I don't know if you remember Lou Hebert, one of the best recruiters UL football has ever had. After he left in (95 I think) UL failed to replace him with a person of near or equal value. 1997 was the result.

    There were other reasons (that I know you know) like little or no recruiting money for Lou Hebert's replacement, a head football coach who was also dividing his day being the athletic director, a truly impossible feat, followed closely by the Baldwin years.

    That is a lot to recover from.

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    Ragin' Cajuns Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    I understand and agree to an extent but evidently no officials at UL were seriously considering CUSA either and we see where that lack of thought possibility got them. . . in trouble.

    Also I did mention earlier there are two tracks to independence, the Idaho way (same for NMSU) and the BYU way. One garners positive publicity and one garners negative publicity.
    What is the BYU way? They have a national following developed over decades of being pretty good, near a major market, the school of choice by millions of Marmons, and a national championship in their trophy room, and the ability to buy some games from pretty formiable opponents. We have none of those things.

    If NMSU and Idaho survive in fbs they will have found a conference, and come back in five years telling me the BYU model is working better than the Utha Utes model.

    You guys feel that desperate, that you are betting the programs life on independance. That is a very bad risk reward.

    Cajunsmike is absolutely correct, this is not worthy of discussion, except possibly on RaginPagin @ Fantacy Island.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    Independence is not/was not the culprit UL needed to recover from.

    I don't know if you remember Lou Hebert, one of the best recruiters UL football has ever had. After he left in (95 I think) UL failed to replace him with a person of near or equal value. 1997 was the result.

    There were other reasons (that I know you know) like little or no recruiting money for Lou Hebert's replacement, a head football coach who was also dividing his day being the athletic director, a truly impossible feat, followed closely by the Baldwin years.

    That is a lot to recover from.
    Turbine, when we left the Big West for no regional conference and went independent we sealed our faith. Funding had more to do with it then the loss of Lou Hebert. Even Lou Hebert couldn't recruit without a budget and UL getting crushed in games because we had to play road kill games as in independent didn't help. No one wanted to come to UL with no opportunity for bowls and facilities that were marginal. Hebert couldn't find enough kids that wanted to come play in that environment.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunEXPRESS View Post
    What is the BYU way? They have a national following developed over decades of being pretty good, near a major market, the school of choice by millions of Marmons, and a national championship in their trophy room, and the ability to buy some games from pretty formiable opponents. We have none of those things.
    Those are good 'unique' points in their independent flavor favor.

    By BYU way, I meant willingly-proactive as opposed to forced-reactive.

    UL can have an identity no one in the country can match, or UL can be in a conference where few outsiders can discern the difference between a 112 year-old football program (UL) and a 3 year-old football program (insert name).

    I am not saying independence is the best route, I am saying it should not be dismissed out of hand. There is a huge potential upside as well and it is worth discussing not just cussing.

    jmo

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    Those are good 'unique' points in their independent flavor favor.

    By BYU way, I meant willingly-proactive as opposed to forced-reactive.

    UL can have an identity no one in the country can match, or UL can be in a conference where few can tell the 112 year-old football program (UL) from the 3 year-old football program (insert name).

    I am not saying independence is the best route, I am saying it should not be dismissed out of hand. There is a huge potential upside as well and it is worth discussing not just cussing.
    For the purpose of discussion, it should not be dismissed out of hand. For the purpose of offering a viable solution to our current predicament is should be dismissed immediately. I've seen nothing offered in terms of answering the questions to no bowl affiliation, loss of conference money, no television contracts, funding more expensive scheduling endeavors yearly and then there is that inconvenience matters of history's lessons endured during our previous attempt at being Independent.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    Turbine, when we left the Big West for no regional conference and went independent we sealed our faith. Funding had more to do with it then the loss of Lou Hebert. Even Lou Hebert couldn't recruit without a budget and UL getting crushed in games because we had to play road kill games as in independent didn't help. No one wanted to come to UL with no opportunity for bowls and facilities that were marginal. Hebert couldn't find enough kids that wanted to come play in that environment.
    T, read carefully.


    UL won 2 Big West titles with talent recruited while we were an independent.

    UL had 2 of the worst years in our history, 97 and 98, with talent recruited while we were in a conference.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    ... I've seen nothing offered in terms of answering the questions to no bowl affiliation...,

    You've said it yourself once. We are now on the radar for at large bids to area bowls with our huge fanbase. I think we would pickup one of those once in a while, but if you want an affiliation, create your own bowl. That is entirely doable.



    ...loss of conference money, no television contracts, funding more expensive scheduling endeavors yearly .....
    Oh yes, we are just swimming in that SBC TV money and Tourney baby!!!!! Woo Hoo!!!!

    C'mon.

    Instead of playing 1 money game, you play 2 or 3. But, that tougher schedule goes along with raising the bar by going Indy. The reason NMSU and Idaho are scared stiff is because they are not committed. Yeah, going Indy scares some people, because it forces you to make a decision. Go big or go home.



    and then there is that inconvenience matters of history's lessons endured during our previous attempt at being Independent

    Since 1982......

    15 years as in independent, 6 winning seasons (40%)

    14 years in a conference, 5 winning seasons (36%)


    I think any lessons we can learn from the past 30 years are that you never squash private fundraising efforts, you never voluntarily kill your football program, and you never turn down invites to better leagues.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    T, read carefully.


    UL won 2 Big West titles with talent recruited while we were an independent.

    UL had 2 of the worst years in our history, 97 and 98, with talent recruited while we were in a conference.
    "The two seasons prior to joining the Big West USL was 2-9 and 2-8-1. Same as two of the worst years you point to in 97 and 98. What was the reason we joined the Big West? Because we could no longer atttract athletes to play for because we had no opportunity to play in bowl games. You see I was there back then and remember the discussion that took place. Something you don't know from reading a record book or media guide. At that point, it was established that we were headed to the Big West, so the first recruiting class.

    *In 1992 Class we had Clifton Sylvester, Ron Thomas, Sherard Thibodeaux,Brian Sansalone, Mike Shafer, Don Paul, Gilberto Plasencia, James Pennington, Jeff Mitchell, Ryan McGrath, Mike Mathews, Marcus Prior, Sam Heinen, Casey Brabham, Brad Blackmon, Tim Sensely. Marcus Prior, Leodrick Gilmore, Patrice Alexander and Lucas Yarnell.

    All of these athletes in the 1992 Class eventually went on to become All-Conference Big West

    *Sam Heinen
    *Patrice Alexander
    *Marcus Prior
    *Tim Sensley
    *Jeff Mitchell
    *Leodrick Gilmore
    *Mike Shafer
    *Lucas Yarnell
    *Clifton Sylvester

    *In the 1993 Class (First Year in the Big West) came Jake Delhomme, Kenyon Cotton, Donald Richard, Paul Cabble, Kelcie Dotson, Damon Mason, Britt Jackson, Pat Brennen, Cody Romero, Joe Evans and Keno Hills just to name a few.

    All Big West Conference from the 1993 Class

    *Jake Delhomme
    *Kenyon Cotton
    *Donald Richard
    *Paul Cabble
    *Kelcie Dotson
    *Damon Mason
    *Britt Jackson
    *Pat Brennen
    *Cody Romero
    * Keno Hills



    19 athletes from the 1992 and 1993 Classes were named All-Big West Conference at least once.

    What happend to the recruiting budget, coaches salaries and football operating budget during after the Big West, all cut. The program was going down when we entered the Big West and it sank to new levels afterwards.

    The landscape has changed in NCAA football since then, with the introduction of NCAA conference money, television contracts and bowl tie-ins and APR. Funding was the root of the problem back then and without the current resources we would be done. I can read and I also have the lessons of history at hand because I was there following recruiting and the program just like today.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    You've said it yourself once. We are now on the radar for at large bids to area bowls with our huge fanbase. I think we would pickup one of those once in a while, but if you want an affiliation, create your own bowl. That is entirely doable.


    Go back and read my post to Turbine concerning budget cuts and playing four road kill games a season. So what? Are you kidding? I will end my participation in this thread by simply asking you to call Coach Hudpseth and suggest we should become an Independent. Before you finish the sentence he would laugh you off the phone or out of his office.

    BTW, to create your own bowl and to be sanctioned by the NCAA you must find a sponsor to put up money. Still haven't heard which sponsor you would approach that is currently investing millions into Cajun Football to fund such an endevor.



    Oh yes, we are just swimming in that SBC TV money and Tourney baby!!!!! Woo Hoo!!!!

    C'mon.

    Instead of playing 1 money game, you play 2 or 3. But, that tougher schedule goes along with raising the bar by going Indy. The reason NMSU and Idaho are scared stiff is because they are not committed. Yeah, going Indy scares some people, because it forces you to make a decision. Go big or go home.






    Since 1982......

    15 years as in independent, 6 winning seasons (40%)

    14 years in a conference, 5 winning seasons (36%)


    I think any lessons we can learn from the past 30 years are that you never squash private fundraising efforts, you never voluntarily kill your football program, and you never turn down invites to better leagues.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    ...we could no longer atttract athletes to play for because we had no opportunity to play in bowl games...

    OK, so the first item on the Indy to-do-list is formation of the Energy Bowl in Lafayette.




    ....Funding was the root of the problem back then ....

    ...and today as well.


    It seems a multi-year ramp up is required to do the move properly. Keep winning, keep expanding the RCAF, and keep raising funds for the stadium project. All the while, a group of investors from the Oil Industry are recruited until we have the funds and the green light from the NCAA.

    Could time the announcements the same day of our Independence and of the Energy Bowl.

    Thanks for the info T!

    Next time just tell me what you know at the beginning. No need to get argumentative. We are just talkin' man. Just talkin'

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    What was the reason we joined the Big West? Because we could no longer atttract athletes to play for because we had no opportunity to play in bowl games.
    I agree. Any move to Ind. status would have to hinge on a local Boise style bowl.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    OK, so the first item on the Indy to-do-list is formation of the Energy Bowl in Lafayette.







    ...and today as well.


    It seems a multi-year ramp up is required to do the move properly. Keep winning, keep expanding the RCAF, and keep raising funds for the stadium project. All the while, a group of investors from the Oil Industry are recruited until we have the funds and the green light from the NCAA.

    Could time the announcements the same day of our Independence and of the Energy Bowl.

    Thanks for the info T!

    Next time just tell me what you know at the beginning. No need to get argumentative. We are just talkin' man. Just talkin'
    I get argumentative at times because you drive me crazy dude with crazy suggestions that have not been well thought out. I know your heart is in the right place, I have never questioned your status as a Cajun fan. So I will let others join this debate.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    I agree. Any move to Ind. status would have to hinge on a local Boise style bowl.
    Turb, PM Lou Hebert and I think you will find he will back me up on my comments.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    Wow, the Atlantic Sun! This is another one of your farfetched ideas that fails to separate finances from fallacy. Sending your Olympic sports to a conference in the Eastern Time Zone only adds to your travels cost and further strains your budget. To use your term, that is FACT!

    Hmmmmm.

    This seems oddly familiar.


    Let me try something.


    --Wow, the WAC! This is another one of your farfetched ideas that fails to separate finances from fallacy. Sending your Olympic sports to a conference in the PACIFIC Time Zone only adds to your travels cost and further strains your budget. To use your term, that is FACT!


    Yeah. That really set back Tech decades. Too bad they had to come crawling back........


    If you desire separation strong enough, you find the money.

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