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Thread: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Let me clear up one thing.


    Going Indy in football does not mean you go Indy in other sports.


    While the SBC would not allow us to remain as a non-football member per the league rules, this does not mean we must go independent in everything.


    Most obvious answer is the Atlantic Sun. It is a better rated RPI league than the SBC in both basketball and baseball, and they would take us in a second.


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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    Disagree.
    No ____, as evidenced by your 200 posts on the subject over the past day. If going independent was a more feasible option, more schools would do it.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
    No ____, as evidenced by your 200 posts on the subject over the past day. If going independent was a more feasible option, more schools would do it.

    I don't care what other schools do or don't do.

    All I am interested in is if Indy is right for us. I think it is.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    OK

    I want you tho think back to when the CAjuns were independent

    Do you remember????? We played hell scheduling and tried desperately to get into or make up a conference---And when we finally did (I think Big West or something crazy like that) all the coaches could talk about was how relieved they were that we finally could play for a championship

    how they could recruit to that end finally

    that they could get an auto invite for a championship in conference

    -OK great to have these points BUT this is not a solution---We have been there and it is not a good thing

    it is in fact a terrible thing---Time I think to give it a rest but that is what this board is for---NOT GOOD FOR UL!!!


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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    I admit I would rather be BYU (proactive) than Idaho (reactive) when it comes to capitalizing on getting the positive National exposure that the Indi model offers


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    UL Football Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    I admit I would rather be BYU (proactive) than Idaho (reactive) when it comes to capitalizing on getting the positive National exposure that the Indi model offers
    BYU has never been Idaho. They had a national championship decades ago, and have had many outstanding teams. Still they have placed themsleves in a very dangerous spot. I would be surprised if they are independent three years from today, or alt least set to go into a major conference.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    I don't care what other schools do or don't do.

    All I am interested in is if Indy is right for us. I think it is.
    My main objection to indiependent staus is scheduling. that is one point you keep failing to address. what do you envision an idnependent schedule to look like? How are you going to put a schedule together once schools begin conference play? As someone else pointed out, its hard enough scheduling 4 OOC games with your conference scheduling the other 8 games for you. Having to schedule 8 additional games will be that much harder.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer58 View Post
    My main objection to indiependent staus is scheduling. that is one point you keep failing to address. what do you envision an idnependent schedule to look like? How are you going to put a schedule together once schools begin conference play? As someone else pointed out, its hard enough scheduling 4 OOC games with your conference scheduling the other 8 games for you. Having to schedule 8 additional games will be that much harder.
    Good question, as this is the main objection of many.

    Let's look at this methodically.

    At least one game per year will be locked into a home game versus an FCS school. Easy to do.

    At least one game per year will be a home and home with New Mexico State. Easy to do.

    Of the remaining 10 games, at least 6 of those will be home and home contracts with any FBS school not named ULM. I'm guessing Texas State will be eager to sign up for many 2 year cycles. The other 5 would be whatever schools we could fit into the schedule. Army would be on there once in a while. BYU might work with us for a 2 for 1. MAC schools are always looking for games. Troy and South Al would be interested. Etc. Etc.

    Once those contracts are locked up, the remaining 4 slots could be filled as best we can. It may be 4 money games. It may be 2 money games and 2 more FCS schools. Whatever.

    Yes, most of our schedule is taken care of already right now due to our conference schedule, but there is a rigidity built into that that hinders other scheduling too.

    Indy status gives you the freedom to work with the other school in scheduling a lot more.

    I think the scheduling issue is a push. The difference would be in playing a couple more money games per year, but that is the whole idea of going Indy. It is to elevate your program in the minds of the people and players.

    Bold statements. A reselling of the program to our many, wealthy alumni that are still out there waiting to be sold on this university and those wealthy business people in Acadiana that have no idea that they could be on the ground floor of the building of a Major football program.


    We are so focused right now on building and rebranding the SBC.

    Hogwash. Waste of time.

    ALL of our efforts should be geared towards building and branding the University of Louisiana as a Major football program.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    Good question, as this is the main objection of many.

    Let's look at this methodically.

    At least one game per year will be locked into a home game versus an FCS school. Easy to do.

    At least one game per year will be a home and home with New Mexico State. Easy to do.

    Of the remaining 10 games, at least 6 of those will be home and home contracts with any FBS school not named ULM. I'm guessing Texas State will be eager to sign up for many 2 year cycles. The other 5 would be whatever schools we could fit into the schedule. Army would be on there once in a while. BYU might work with us for a 2 for 1. MAC schools are always looking for games. Troy and South Al would be interested. Etc. Etc.

    Once those contracts are locked up, the remaining 4 slots could be filled as best we can. It may be 4 money games. It may be 2 money games and 2 more FCS schools. Whatever.

    Yes, most of our schedule is taken care of already right now due to our conference schedule, but there is a rigidity built into that that hinders other scheduling too.

    Indy status gives you the freedom to work with the other school in scheduling a lot more.

    I think the scheduling issue is a push. The difference would be in playing a couple more money games per year, but that is the whole idea of going Indy. It is to elevate your program in the minds of the people and players.

    Bold statements. A reselling of the program to our many, wealthy alumni that are still out there waiting to be sold on this university and those wealthy business people in Acadiana that have no idea that they could be on the ground floor of the building of a Major football program.


    We are so focused right now on building and rebranding the SBC.

    Hogwash. Waste of time.

    ALL of our efforts should be geared towards building and branding the University of Louisiana as a Major football program.
    There are currently 125 FBS schools from which we need to schedule 11 games ( a 12th game vs. FCS school). Since each school has 3-4 OOC games to schedule, that is 375 -500 open dates to work with for 11 games. With a 50,000+ seat stadium, we can get Home and Home games AND we keep all the revenue as well as ALL the revenue from any money games AND bowl game. Scheduling should never be a problem (can't compare it to the mid 90s). The real key is a bowl game which is the real key. Start up the Cajun Bowl game in our back yard and we have a guaranteed bowl appearance if our won-lost record merits it and we are not selected for another bowl game. We don't have to share conference revenue, we get to create our own real identity and call us what WE want to be called, we greatly improve our schedule, we don't have to worry about what the SBC will be like once schools like MT or GA State get picked up and the SBC is down to a bunch of former Southland schools, we are referenced with the other Independents (ND, Army, Navy, BYU), we rid ourselves of ULM, we rid ourselves of the SunBelt stigma (even the SBC says it needs to rebrand itself), and we much more quickly enhance our position and attractiveness to major conferences as they further expand in the coming years. Don't know that Independence in football is the right thing to do, but I don't know why so many are so quick to dismiss it. It is not a long term solution, but it just might be the quickest way to building and rebranding the University of Louisiana as a Major football program as CajunNation pointed out.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonCajun View Post
    There are currently 125 FBS schools from which we need to schedule 11 games ( a 12th game vs. FCS school). Since each school has 3-4 OOC games to schedule, that is 375 -500 open dates to work with for 11 games. With a 50,000+ seat stadium, we can get Home and Home games AND we keep all the revenue as well as ALL the revenue from any money games AND bowl game. Scheduling should never be a problem (can't compare it to the mid 90s). The real key is a bowl game which is the real key. Start up the Cajun Bowl game in our back yard and we have a guaranteed bowl appearance if our won-lost record merits it and we are not selected for another bowl game. We don't have to share conference revenue, we get to create our own real identity and call us what WE want to be called, we greatly improve our schedule, we don't have to worry about what the SBC will be like once schools like MT or GA State get picked up and the SBC is down to a bunch of former Southland schools, we are referenced with the other Independents (ND, Army, Navy, BYU), we rid ourselves of ULM, we rid ourselves of the SunBelt stigma (even the SBC says it needs to rebrand itself), and we much more quickly enhance our position and attractiveness to major conferences as they further expand in the coming years. Don't know that Independence in football is the right thing to do, but I don't know why so many are so quick to dismiss it. It is not a long term solution, but it just might be the quickest way to building and rebranding the University of Louisiana as a Major football program as CajunNation pointed out.




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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    If it is so easy why do we have trouble getting games scheduled to fill 3 dates now? And you expect it to get easier scheduling 12 games. You ignore the fact that most schools do not want to schedule OOC mid-season once their conference slate starts. So most of your opportunity for ease of reaching an agreement is in the first three weeks of the season. After that your odds are greatly reduced because teams are into their set conference schedule. in addition you ignore the difficulties we have had in the past in reaching home and home agreements with programs that we considered our peers. How many times have there been discussions here about why teams like Houston, Tech, Tulane, Rice, etc would not agree to play us? Egos lay a big part in scheduling as well.

    We have a past history of trying to set schedules as an independent and it was difficult back then when there were more teams in the same boat. Now you are talking about being one of just a very few in that boat. I think you are naive if you truly believe scheduling would be as simple as you make it out to be.

    .


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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer58 View Post
    If it is so easy why do we have trouble getting games scheduled to fill 3 dates now? And you expect it to get easier scheduling 12 games. You ignore the fact that most schools do not want to schedule OOC mid-season once their conference slate starts. So most of your opportunity for ease of reaching an agreement is in the first three weeks of the season. After that your odds are greatly reduced because teams are into their set conference schedule. in addition you ignore the difficulties we have had in the past in reaching home and home agreements with programs that we considered our peers. How many times have there been discussions here about why teams like Houston, Tech, Tulane, Rice, etc would not agree to play us? Egos lay a big part in scheduling as well.

    We have a past history of trying to set schedules as an independent and it was difficult back then when there were more teams in the same boat. Now you are talking about being one of just a very few in that boat. I think you are naive if you truly believe scheduling would be as simple as you make it out to be.

    .
    Hammer, I never said it would be easier.

    I said it would be a push. Some things would be easier, some harder.

    I am ignoring nothing. I am well aware of being blackballed by the CUSA schools. If you would have paid attention to my previous post, I didn't include them in my hypothesis.

    From '96-'00, we averaged 3 games per year versus other independent schools. Every other game scheduled was versus a school with a conference schedule.

    Today, we would be looking at at least 2 games per year with other independent schools. It would be some combination from New Mexico State, Army, Idaho, and BYU.

    Yes, there are a few less Indy schools now, but there are also many more FBS schools now with more in the pipeline.

    We were able to fill out schedules from 96-00. We would be able to do the same now.

    This is a fact.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    Hammer, I never said it would be easier.

    I said it would be a push. Some things would be easier, some harder.

    I am ignoring nothing. I am well aware of being blackballed by the CUSA schools. If you would have paid attention to my previous post, I didn't include them in my hypothesis.

    From '96-'00, we averaged 3 games per year versus other independent schools. Every other game scheduled was versus a school with a conference schedule.

    Today, we would be looking at at least 2 games per year with other independent schools. It would be some combination from New Mexico State, Army, Idaho, and BYU.

    Yes, there are a few less Indy schools now, but there are also many more FBS schools now with more in the pipeline.

    We were able to fill out schedules from 96-00. We would be able to do the same now.

    This is a fact.
    And the fact was that we would still be trying to finalize our schedule well into the summer. In addition, we would not build consistent rivalries and travel budgets would likely increase since we would likely travel out of our geographic footprint more frequently. I just do not see it as a net plus versus what we have now and beleive it would be a huge net negative.

    It looks like Idaho and New Mexico State will get to be the guinea pigs in this "D1A football independent experiment". We'll see how that works out.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    Let me clear up one thing.


    Going Indy in football does not mean you go Indy in other sports.


    While the SBC would not allow us to remain as a non-football member per the league rules, this does not mean we must go independent in everything.


    Most obvious answer is the Atlantic Sun. It is a better rated RPI league than the SBC in both basketball and baseball, and they would take us in a second.
    Wow, the Atlantic Sun! This is another one of your farfetched ideas that fails to separate finances from fallacy. Sending your Olympic sports to a conference in the Eastern Time Zone only adds to your travels cost and further strains your budget. To use your term, that is FACT!

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    The primary reason not to go independent, is scheduling. It would be a nightmare and there is no way our admin would want to take that incredibly tough task on. It was a problem before when UL was independent, and it would be a problem today. There also would be no TV exposure at all, very little chance of a Bowl and no rivalries. It would be a disaster. Now, on the other hand. The thought of not being tied to some of these FCS transfers and not having the thorn called ULM to associate with would be a good thing.


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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Untethering from ULM will not be an easy move.


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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    Untethering from ULM will not be an easy move.
    And for those that the name issue is a factor, who do you think has a better chance of being associated with the "Louisiana" moniker, an independent struggling to get press or a team in a conference with it's PR advantages?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer58 View Post
    And for those that the name issue is a factor, who do you think has a better chance of being associated with the "Louisiana" moniker, an independent struggling to get press or a team in a conference with it's PR advantages?
    I think the name advantage will go to the team playing the schedule that crosses new and varied markets.

    UL will also (if marketed right) be the first school on everyone's digital rolodex when they try to round out their 12 game schedule.

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    Default Re: Prediction: SBC 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunNation View Post
    Hammer, I never said it would be easier.

    I said it would be a push. Some things would be easier, some harder.

    I am ignoring nothing. I am well aware of being blackballed by the CUSA schools. If you would have paid attention to my previous post, I didn't include them in my hypothesis.

    From '96-'00, we averaged 3 games per year versus other independent schools. Every other game scheduled was versus a school with a conference schedule.

    Today, we would be looking at at least 2 games per year with other independent schools. It would be some combination from New Mexico State, Army, Idaho, and BYU.

    Yes, there are a few less Indy schools now, but there are also many more FBS schools now with more in the pipeline.

    We were able to fill out schedules from 96-00. We would be able to do the same now.

    This is a fact.
    Your hypothesis never seems to involve the reality of funding or finances. First, playing as an independent means you no longer have any conference revenue share or television money. You also are no longer guaranteed 8 scheduled games a year; meaning you would have to negotiate, or come to agreement and buy 12 games a season. In that past, that has meant playing four road kill games a year against BCS programs because of the financial restraints put upon your program as an independent. In addition to those negatives, you would have no bowl tie ins to improve your brand. We are not Notre Dame or even BYU that has its own Mormon television network. The best way for UL to improve its brand is within a conference, winning championships and bowl games. You improve your funding, increase your brand recognition and others will want to be associated with your athletic program. That is the proven model for athletic programs like UL, not the graveyard of independents. We’ve been there and have never fully recovered. That is FACT!

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    Default Re: The Advantages and Disavantages of going Independent in Football

    Our AD doesn't know his _____ from a hole in the ground, do you really think he could put a schedule together without screwing it up. I guess he could hire a scheduling firm also to do his job.


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