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Thread: Kelley

  1. #161
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    Default Re: Kelley

    So I must refrain from posting about politics but yet there is a full blown political discussion about drugs itt.....hmmm


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    Default Re: Kelley

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    Default Re: Kelley

    False Argument of Comparing Alcohol to Marijuana!

    Alcohol differs from marijuana in several crucial respects. First, marijuana is far more likely to cause addiction. Second, it is usually consumed to the point of intoxication. Third, it has no known general healthful properties, though it may have some palliative effects. Fourth, it is toxic and deleterious to health. Thus, while it is true that both alcohol and marijuana are less intoxicating than other mood-altering drugs, that is not to say that marijuana is especially similar to alcohol or that its use is healthy or even safe.

    In fact, compared to alcohol, marijuana is not safe. Long-term, moderate consumption of alcohol carries few health risks and even offers some significant benefits. For example, a glass of wine (or other alcoholic drink) with dinner actually improves health.[8] Dozens of peer-reviewed medical studies suggest that drinking moderate amounts of alcohol reduces the risk of heart disease, strokes, gallstones, diabetes, and death from a heart attack.[9] According to the Mayo Clinic, among many others, moderate use of alcohol (defined as two drinks a day) “seems to offer some health benefits, particularly for the heart.”[10] Countless articles in medical journals and other scientific literature confirm the positive health effects of moderate alcohol consumption.

    The effects of regular marijuana consumption are quite different. For example, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (a division of the National Institutes of Health) has released studies showing that use of marijuana has wide-ranging negative health effects. Long-term marijuana consumption “impairs the ability of T-cells in the lungs’ immune system to fight off some infections.”[11] These studies have also found that marijuana consumption impairs short-term memory, making it difficult to learn and retain information or perform complex tasks; slows reaction time and impairs motor coordination; increases heart rate by 20 percent to 100 percent, thus elevating the risk of heart attack; and alters moods, resulting in artificial euphoria, calmness, or (in high doses) anxiety or paranoia.[12] And it gets worse: Marijuana has toxic properties that can result in birth defects, pain, respiratory system damage, brain damage, and stroke.[13]

    Further, prolonged use of marijuana may cause cognitive degradation and is “associated with lower test scores and lower educational attainment because during periods of intoxication the drug affects the ability to learn and process information, thus influencing attention, concentration, and short-term memory.”[14] Unlike alcohol, marijuana has been shown to have a residual effect on cognitive ability that persists beyond the period of intoxication.[15] According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, whereas alcohol is broken down relatively quickly in the human body, THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active chemical in marijuana) is stored in organs and fatty tissues, allowing it to remain in a user’s body for days or even weeks after consumption.[16] Research has shown that marijuana consumption may also cause “psychotic symptoms.”[17]

    Marijuana’s effects on the body are profound. According to the British Lung Foundation, “smoking three or four marijuana joints is as bad for your lungs as smoking twenty tobacco cigarettes.”[18] Researchers in Canada found that marijuana smoke contains significantly higher levels of numerous toxic compounds, like ammonia and hydrogen cyanide, than regular tobacco smoke.[19] In fact, the study determined that ammonia was found in marijuana smoke at levels of up to 20 times the levels found in tobacco.[20] Similarly, hydrogen cyanide was found in marijuana smoke at concentrations three to five times greater than those found in tobacco smoke.[21]

    Marijuana, like tobacco, is addictive. One study found that more than 30 percent of adults who used marijuana in the course of a year were dependent on the drug.[22] These individuals often show signs of withdrawal and compulsive behavior.[23] Marijuana dependence is also responsible for a large proportion of calls to drug abuse help lines and treatment centers.

    To equate marijuana use with alcohol consumption is, at best, uninformed and, at worst, actively misleading. Only in the most superficial ways are the two substances alike, and they differ in every way that counts: addictiveness, toxicity, health effects, and risk of intoxication.


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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunFan3406 View Post
    This made me chuckle.
    For all those that were buying into the legalized crowds propaganda, please fill free to educate yourselves before taking a leap of the cliff with this crowd. The legalization argument is motivated by nothing more then self grativication. It's a selfish idea that could give a damn about the ramifications on the rest of society such as higher crime, more violence and higher healthcare cost. What the hell, many of these same people want you or me to pay for their healthcare so they share no responsibility in the residual cost to themselves and the rest of society. We've seen enough of them in the Occupy Wall Street Movement blasted out of their freaking minds. Many of us have used marijuana in the past; clearly know enough about it to produce a counter argument to a group that has yet to live a life of experience that comes with that journey. Save your lectures as well, you're just the next generation of doobie brothers that is preaching to people who have already walked this path long before you were ever conceived.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Kelley

    I'd counter that with this article from "The Teenage Mind" written by Jann Gumbiner, Ph.D. She is a licensed psychologist and clinical professor at Cal Irvine. She specializes in adolescence and child development. I'm explaining all this because I'm trying to cite sources that are as neutral as possible. We'll never get anywhere if we continue to post studies from sources with agendas.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...uana-addictive

    Here is one small clip:

    "Compared to other substances, marijuana is not very addicting. It is estimated that 32% of tobacco users will become addicted, 23% of heroin users, 17% of cocaine users, and 15% of alcohol users. Cocaine and heroin are more physically harmful and nicotine is much more addictive. It is much harder to quit smoking cigarettes than it is to quit smoking pot."

    I do have to say that this thread has been very enlightening. I wish we could discuss more politics on this site. I'd be very interested to know how you guys feel about the upcoming election.


  6. #166
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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokes1003 View Post
    I do have to say that this thread has been very enlightening. I wish we could discuss more politics on this site. I'd be very interested to know how you guys feel about the upcoming election.
    Are you nuts? We can't discuss school colors without someone pulling out a flamethrower... there's no way we'll get through any discussion on politics.

    Some people aren't wired for talking about some of these topics. In person, I like to have these conversations. Im not thrilled about writing on here, conversationally, on these topics. I'm a conservative, fiscally, and a mixture of conservative/libertarian socially. But, I can usually appreciate an opposing view from an intelligent person. I fear very little and have a pretty good grasp of what I can and cannot control... so even though I don't back down easy... I respect the right of an ignorant liberal to have his/her say (ha).

  7. #167

    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
    Are you nuts? We can't discuss school colors without someone pulling out a flamethrower... there's no way we'll get through any discussion on politics.

    Some people aren't wired for talking about some of these topics. In person, I like to have these conversations. Im not thrilled about writing on here, conversationally, on these topics. I'm a conservative, fiscally, and a mixture of conservative/libertarian socially. But, I can usually appreciate an opposing view from an intelligent person. I fear very little and have a pretty good grasp of what I can and cannot control... so even though I don't back down easy... I respect the right of an ignorant liberal to have his/her say (ha).
    Unfortunately I think you are right. However, despite some of the animosity this thread has been very educational. For example, in one of his previous posts, CajunT listed some anti-legalization statistics. While it was obvious by the wording that it was published by an organization with an anti-marijuana agenda one thing did stick out to me. A statistic that said something about the heroin usage in weed legal countries tripling after legalization. As I've never seen this statistic, it's compelled me to do more research on the subject to better understand why that happened. This point challenges my beliefs and I look forward to getting to the bottom of it to either strengthen or alter my point of view. I hope some of my points did the same for others.

    I think the debate has gone about as far as it can go so I think I'm going to respectfully withdraw from the discussion.

    I will say though that my political ideology sounds very similar to yours, so we would probably do far more agreeing than you would imagine, outside of this particular issue of course.

    Geaux Cajuns.

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    Since you've used the DEA as part of your argument, let's go ahead a put the "REST" of the story up the you advocates politely fail to mention:

    Summary of the Top Ten Facts on Legalization

    Fact 1: We have made significant progress in fighting drug use and drug trafficking in America. Now is not the time to abandon our efforts.

    The Legalization Lobby claims that the fight against drugs cannot be won. However, overall drug use is down by more than a third in the last twenty years, while cocaine use has dropped by an astounding 70 percent. Ninety-five percent of Americans do not use drugs. This is success by any standards.

    Fact 2: A balanced approach of prevention, enforcement, and treatment is the key in the fight against drugs.

    A successful drug policy must apply a balanced approach of prevention, enforcement and treatment. All three aspects are crucial. For those who end up hooked on drugs, there are innovative programs, like Drug Treatment Courts, that offer non-violent users the option of seeking treatment. Drug Treatment Courts provide court supervision, unlike voluntary treatment centers.

    Fact 3: Illegal drugs are illegal because they are harmful.

    There is a growing misconception that some illegal drugs can be taken safely. For example, savvy drug dealers have learned how to market drugs like Ecstasy to youth. Some in the Legalization Lobby even claim such drugs have medical value, despite the lack of conclusive scientific evidence.

    Fact 4: Smoked marijuana is not scientifically approved medicine. Marinol, the legal version of medical marijuana, is approved by science.

    According to the Institute of Medicine, there is no future in smoked marijuana as medicine. However, the prescription drug Marinol—a legal and safe version of medical marijuana which isolates the active ingredient of THC—has been studied and approved by the Food & Drug Administration as safe medicine. The difference is that you have to get a prescription for Marinol from a licensed physician. You can't buy it on a street corner, and you don't smoke it.

    Fact 5: Drug control spending is a minor portion of the U.S. budget. Compared to the social costs of drug abuse and addiction, government spending on drug control is minimal.

    The Legalization Lobby claims that the United States has wasted billions of dollars in its anti-drug efforts. But for those kids saved from drug addiction, this is hardly wasted dollars. Moreover, our fight against drug abuse and addiction is an ongoing struggle that should be treated like any other social problem. Would we give up on education or poverty simply because we haven't eliminated all problems? Compared to the social costs of drug abuse and addiction—whether in taxpayer dollars or in pain and suffering—government spending on drug control is minimal.

    Fact 6: Legalization of drugs will lead to increased use and increased levels of addiction. Legalization has been tried before, and failed miserably.

    Legalization has been tried before—and failed miserably. Alaska's experiment with Legalization in the 1970s led to the state's teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. This led Alaska's residents to vote to re-criminalize marijuana in 1990.

    Fact 7: Crime, violence, and drug use go hand-in-hand.

    Crime, violence and drug use go hand in hand. Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs, as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs. Most drug crimes aren't committed by people trying to pay for drugs; they're committed by people on drugs.

    Fact 8: Alcohol has caused significant health, social, and crime problems in this country, and legalized drugs would only make the situation worse.

    The Legalization Lobby claims drugs are no more dangerous than alcohol. But drunk driving is one of the primary killers of Americans. Do we want our bus drivers, nurses, and airline pilots to be able to take drugs one evening, and operate freely at work the next day? Do we want to add to the destruction by making drugged driving another primary killer?

    Fact 9: Europe's more liberal drug policies are not the right model for America.

    The Legalization Lobby claims that the "European Model" of the drug problem is successful. However, since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled. And Needle Park seems like a poor model for America.

    Fact 10: Most non-violent drug users get treatment, not jail time.

    The Legalization Lobby claims that America's prisons are filling up with users. Truth is, only about 5 percent of inmates in federal prison are there because of simple possession. Most drug criminals are in jail—even on possession charges—because they have plea-bargained down from major trafficking offences or more violent drug crimes.


    So lets see, more addicts equals higher crime, medical cost and increased violence.
    I didn't read all that; just skimmed the first "fact". Are you really arguing that the war on drugs is a success? If so i can't have a legit discussion with you.

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    This is so COOL Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by Camz View Post
    I didn't read all that; just skimmed the first "fact". Are you really arguing that the war on drugs is a success? If so i can't have a legit discussion with you.
    If you mean they haven't gotten to your mothers basement, then no it hasn't been a complete success. And to whomever gave me the negative rating in this thread, I'm truly sorry for your discomfort with the subject matter or my response. Pehaps you will feel much better after you light another one up?

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    Default Re: Kelley

    so do you think the war on drugs the last 30 years has been a success relative to the financial/people resources put into it?


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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by Camz View Post
    so do you think the war on drugs the last 30 years has been a success relative to the financial/people resources put into it?
    Does your cost analysis include the millions of dollars tax payers have saved over the past 30 years in health care cost, drug treatment, theft, violent crimes and the millions that weren’t incarcerated because of the reduction of drug use? By all means, lets due a cost analysis on both sides of the ledger. And while you are at it, please put a cost analysis on the many lives that were saved because people were forced into treatment because of law enforcement interdiction. How much do you think those lives were worth to those citizens and their families?

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    And while you are at it, please put a cost analysis on the many lives that were saved because people were forced into treatment because of law enforcement interdiction. How much do you think those lives were worth to those citizens and their families?

    I think you may be getting marijuana and heroin mixed up.

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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by raginsaints View Post
    I think you may be getting marijuana and heroin mixed up.
    Would not those statistics include Marijuana, heroin, crack, meth and others? My statement was in reference to DEA's War on Drugs, not marijuana vs herion.

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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunT View Post
    And to whomever gave me the negative rating in this thread, I'm truly sorry for your discomfort with the subject matter or my response. Pehaps you will feel much better after you light another one up?
    I didn't give you a negative rating, but both Camz and Stokes rep went from green bars to red in a matter of hours of their posting on this thread. Lighten up.

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    Default Re: Kelley

    Quote Originally Posted by Camz View Post
    so do you think the war on drugs the last 30 years has been a success relative to the financial/people resources put into it?
    Yes

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    Default Re: Kelley

    was anyone going to mention how the advertiser ran one story on the sports page in the following day's paper, not the front page story that some said it was going to run? anyone at all going to comment on how the advertiser did not drag kelley's name through the mud in a series of stories?


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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBaldwin View Post
    was anyone going to mention how the advertiser ran one story on the sports page in the following day's paper, not the front page story that some said it was going to run? anyone at all going to comment on how the advertiser did not drag kelley's name through the mud in a series of stories?
    If you are thinking of my post below . . . I was not expecting or predicting future coverage, just lamenting what is deemed worthy of front page news. I am glad the paper (unlike in my example) moved on. I am also glad the thread took an educational tangent, I learned a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine View Post
    Now I am not saying this is a false accusation but what comes to mind is how the Advertiser did the same thing and went maniacal with a weeks worth of front page stories based on false accusations of then recruit Berry Jordan. A solid week of front page mistakes, and it wasn't even newsworthy then or now.

    For those who don't recall here is a LINK to the timeline of events.

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